Zimmerman Found Not Guilty

[Cheshire Cat]

This is an interesting article about the jury instructions in today's T.U.

http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2013-07-15/story/jury-instructions-center-zimmerman-verdict

The acquittal of the former neighborhood watch leader left many Americans wondering Sunday how the justice system could allow him to walk away from the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin, the unarmed black teenager whose death provoked a long national debate over racial profiling and self-defense.

But the essential criteria for deciding the case came from the court itself, which told jurors that Zimmerman was allowed to use deadly force when he shot the teen not only if he actually faced death or bodily harm, but also if he merely thought he did.

And jurors heard plenty of conflicting evidence and testimony that could have created reasonable doubt

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2013-07-15/story/jury-instructions-center-zimmerman-verdict#ixzz2Z9GTl6Ji

[Jameson]

So you read my post that way, despite the fact that it was in response to a criticism of the prosecutor, is bracketed by references to the prosecutor's office in the same sentence, and i have since then clarified for you four times that it was in reference to the job faced by the prosecutor?

Can you explain, given this, why anything I might respond with matters?

Why would Corey's office leak anything negative about Trayvon while at the same time prosecuting his case? That's why your statement doesn't make sense to me.

[Cheshire Cat]

Stephen, what is the point of the photo beyond sensationalism?  Everyone knows a young man who was loved by his family is dead and that the death never needed have happened.  The graphic visual is not necessary to make that understood.

[Jameson]

And I still don't understand why we are discussing his facebook page and twitter account or whether or not he smoked pot.

None of those things caused this:

This is what happened.  A child was shot to death by a man with a gun who followed and accosted him.

Again, because you want to make an issue of Zimmerman's past in an attempt to paint him as a racist, yet at the same time completely ignore Trayvon's destructive behavior that lead to him being in Orlando in the first place. Why can't you leave BOTH of their pasts out of the case?

[CityLife]

I have no friggin clue how this thread got to 22 pages, nor do I have time to catch up, but wanted to jump in and say that there are rumors swirling that the 2 brothers that were killed at Golden Corral last night MAY and I stress may have been killed in retaliation to the Zimmerman acquittal. Saw on Facebook that someone who knows one of the brothers says it was related to Zimmerman.

I hope this is not true and I hope that the media is responsible before putting anything out there.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2013-07-15/story/brothers-killed-shooting-outside-jacksonville-restaurant-identified

[Jameson]

Exactly.  And the guy who did it has been subsequently fired by Corey.

My comment was in response to diane's post which immediately preceded it.

So now that that is settled, I will answer your question.

A criminal trial is about an act and a circumstance.

We punish guilty minds, not guilty deeds.  So a person who accidentally kills someone is not charged in the same way as a person who intentionally kills someone.

In the case of this murder, unless Zimmerman was acquainted with Martin before the trial, then Martins life before the incident has no bearing on the case.

It is not Martin's worthiness of living that is on trial.

It is the actions taken by Zimmerman.

Unless you think that murder charges should be decided by the worth that a jury places on the life of the person who has been killed as a factor.

Do you?

Hold on, are you referring to the IT Director, Kruidbos as the employee who was fired?

[Jameson]

You cannot possibly be this thick skulled.

Should people who have been hit behind by a mack truck be called to account as to why they were driving in that city?

This has to be literally the dumbest legal theory i have ever heard.  Literally.  In my life.

Let me make myself VERY clear. Trayvon's past does NOT mean that he deserved to die. Not at all. That is NOT what I am implying. Anyone who thinks like that is an ignorant fool.

I do not understand how you think Trayvon's destructive path of behavior from 2010-2012 that culminated with him being in Orlando because he was suspended from school for 10 days should be left out of the discussion, whereas you have made several references to Zimmerman's past in the discussion, accused he and his family of being racists, etc.

In my opinion, neither man should being tried on their past. BOTH of their pasts should be left out of it.

I have been merely trying to make the point that BOTH OF THEIR PASTS SHOULD BE LEFT OUT OF THE DISCUSSION AS IT DOES NOT PERTAIN TO THE CASE.

Do you not agree? 

[Cheshire Cat]

Stephen, what is the point of the photo beyond sensationalism?  Everyone knows a young man who was loved by his family is dead and that the death never needed have happened.  The graphic visual is not necessary to make that understood.

well I don't think everyone does, Diane.  Most of the commentary on the issue has been about everything except for the dead child. 

I only know this.  As a mother I would never, every want my child's photo showing his face in death to be running through media and social media and being used to push one side or other in a discussion.  It's insensitive and disrespectful to Trayvon and his family to use the moment when he was most vulnerable in death this way.  I hope you will take it down.  Any mother I think would agree.  Their child is the most sacred thing in their life and to see them exploited in photo's in death is dreadful.

[Cheshire Cat]

Thanks Stephen!

[Jameson]

Obviously I don't, and neither does a few thousand years of legal precedent.

George's motivations for killing this child are literally the essence of a murder trial.

Surprising that you don't seem to understand that.

This isnt a public relations campaign Jameson.  Someone died.

Of course you don't.

"George's motivations for killing this child are literally the essence of a murder trial."

A "murder trial."

None of the evidence supported murder. It was a reach to begin with. Anyone thinking logically and not racially sees that. Should have tried him for involuntary manslaughter or manslaughter if they really wanted a conviction.

[Jameson]

um hello.  welcome to earth, Jameson.

Don't know if you heard out there in outer space, but Florida just concluded a murder trial in the case of George Zimmerman.  He was acquitted.

Cute childish sayings, Stephen.

[Cheshire Cat]

This is most assuredly a difficult conversation to have, yet another outcropping to the death of Trayvon, has been conversation about Black on Black crime.  It has been brought up recently on this forum and the conversation was not one initially welcome.  In my view it had much to do with the timing for the opening of the conversation which was not very long after Zimmerman was found not guilty.  People were reeling in response to the outcome of the trial and quite frankly were not ready to talk about anything that pointed a finger back to the Black Community after the death of a young Black man at the hands of a White/Hispanic.  When emotions calm a bit, people can speak and listen a bit more clearly. 

I hold many people close to my heart who are of a variety of races. Many of those persons are black and I love them dearly. I do not even begin to speak for them with regard to this topic but have worked with Black organizations and individuals have spoken to me in depth about their deep concerns regarding Black on Black crime.

Should a discussion about Black on Black crime be used to deflect feelings about the death of Trayvon?  Absolutely
not.  But this is perhaps a conversation needing to be had.  Some non Blacks wonder why outrage only seems to come when a crime includes people of different races.  Real or imagined this perception needs to be understood and discussed if we are ever to get to the bottom of how racism and crime impacts us today.

Let me offer a post from a FB acquaintance who is a Black woman.  I think it is clear that the concern of Black on Black crime is not just an observation about crime but a real concern in the eyes of many.

What is more sickening then Trayvon Martin's murder? Black on Black murders. We have become so immune to them that we don't even raise an eyebrow when the news speak of a shooting on Moncrief, Soutel, Lem Turner, Edgewood, Phoenix, Eastside of town or the Northside of town. We just go on about our life as though it's business as usual. It's really disheartening that we pick and choose what murders we want to polarize or demonstrate about. People wake up. Murder is Murder; regardless of who pulled the trigger. Regardless of what life style the individual lived. It's not the choice of no man on earth decision as to when another person's life should end. That is up to our creator. My nephew RIP Bernard "Hard Nard" Cason was shot and killed 03/11/12 during a senseless Black on Black murder. My family lives for the day we can sit in a courtroom for the trial of a coward. I know there are plenty of others that have experienced tragic family murders and live today to see justice served. We must first start respecting our own color before anyone else does. Missing my nephew!

[Charles Hunter]

This was a point more than one speaker brought up at the Trayvon rally in Hemming Park Sunday.  One middle-aged black male said that (paraphrasing), 'a guarantee that before tomorrow, a black man the same age as Zimmerman will kill another black man, Trayvon's age ... and it won't make the news'  He urged black folk to stop killing each other.

[CityLife]

Here is the Facebook of one of the brothers that was killed. Pretty much everyone on there was saying he got shot over an argument related to the Zimmerman case.

https://www.facebook.com/matthew.r.bohannon

[Cheshire Cat]

This was a point more than one speaker brought up at the Trayvon rally in Hemming Park Sunday.  One middle-aged black male said that (paraphrasing), 'a guarantee that before tomorrow, a black man the same age as Zimmerman will kill another black man, Trayvon's age ... and it won't make the news'  He urged black folk to stop killing each other.

I have heard this over and over Charles.  I know many in the Black community have deep concerns with regard to this issue.  I don't think it is appropriate to pretend it doesn't exist in the face of one high profile crime.  All life is important and while profiling and race based crimes are indeed a very grave problem, I think it may be unfortunate that Zimmerman has become the face for every non black that has been hurt or killed by a non black and Trayvon became the face for all young men on the wrong end of a deadly exchange with a non black.  History clearly shows very egregious crimes against the Black race have been visited upon them through no fault of their own.  That is totally undeniable.  What I think we cannot afford as a society if we are serious about addressing racially based conflicts is to edit today's reality by the past alone.  We need to be honest with ourselves and think rationally, not just through our emotions.