TU does not want USS Charles F. Adams Downtown

[thelakelander]

I don't agree with the argument from a tourism and connectivity standpoint, plus this is a privately financed deal.  The USS Charles F. Adams would go great next to that waterfront surface parking lot, in my opinion.

By The Times-Union

No reasonable person would oppose bringing back the USS Charles F. Adams as a "floating museum."

But it needs to be somewhere other than the site that supporters want - between River City Brewing Co. and the Acosta Bridge.

That location is in the heart of downtown. The Adams is four stories high - 140 feet if you count the top of its antenna.

The Adams would look out of place; with the shipyards gone, there rarely are large vessels downtown. Downtown is not a port.

It would make more sense to put the ship in the Mayport area. That would be its natural setting; it was home-ported at the naval base there for many years.

For security reasons, it wouldn't be practical to put a "floating museum" at the naval base itself. But the St. Johns River flows nearby.

Some might say that would be too far off Interstate 95.

Not necessarily.

There is talk of putting a cruise terminal at Mayport village. If it happens, there will be a steady stream of tourists into the area, all potential museum visitors.

This could be part of something bigger. Plans already are being made for upscale development at the fishing village.

If the cruise port and floating museum are added, that decaying neighborhood might be transformed into an engine of local economic growth.

If Mayport doesn't work out, look elsewhere. The area is replete with riverfront and oceanfront property.

A compelling argument can be made for the downtown location, of course.

It would go like this:

There are many military reunions here. And the Lone Sailor Statue, Maritime Museum, Memorial Wall and Purple Heart Trail are all downtown. Why not put the museum close to them?

But many attending a military reunion will want to go to Mayport - or at least the general area.

And many tourists and visitors will be going to the Beaches anyway - no matter where the ship is docked.

Jacksonville has a heavy military presence, both active duty and retired. A floating naval museum would be appropriate.

Before it is located anywhere, however, the funding mechanism would need to be carefully studied.

Is the tourist traffic high enough to justify such a ship? Will the taxpayers be expected to subsidize this?

The last thing this city needs is an abandoned destroyer without a market to justify its upkeep.

Such a study should precede any serious discussion of location.

In any case, put the ship in a more logical place than amid downtown's skyscrapers. The port makes sense.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/031208/opi_255950910.shtml

[downtownparks]

Wow. I 100% disagree with the TU on this. What better place than downtown. If people wanted to go to mayport to see ships... well, they would just go because there are already ships there!

Lets ask Fall River Mass if they mind having ships in the middle of their downtown...

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=fall+river+mass&ie=UTF8&ll=41.704783,-71.161623&spn=0.007353,0.01442&t=h&z=16

[Steve]

I completely disagree as well - it's almost like they wrote this editorial before they realized it was only four stories high.  The Aetna Building is like 20, Two Prudential is 21, and Riverplace is 27.  Is it going to overshadow anything.

These guys at the T-U don't get connectivity.  If you put it at Mayport, how will it help anything?

[thelakelander]

I would bet that who ever wrote this editorial didn't even bother to research the USS Charles F. Adams website.  If they did, they would find out the following.

1. This is a privately financed project.

2. The group wants it in the heart of downtown so it can feed off the connectivity of nearby attractions.

3. There's a rendering on the front page, showing what the ship will look like docked next to the Acosta Bridge. 

If the rendering is accurate, this thing will fit in just fine.


http://www.adamsclassddgvets.org/

[stephenc]

I dont particular like the location in this pic. I dont think it stands out enough. It seems to scrunched in with everything else. Also, is there enough parking and access to the ship at that location?

[thelakelander]

There's more than enough parking in the immediate area.  I'd like to see some of that surface parking disappear with additional infill development.

[RiversideGator]

I wonder if any of the boys at the T-U have ever been to London.  They have a 600+ foot WWII cruiser right in the middle of town in the Thames.  It is the HMS Belfast:

[Charleston native]

Indeed, the TU really isn't thinking this through at all. Like I mentioned before in another tourism thread, you've got to place interesting attractions in the heart of downtown that will make people want to go downtown. This ship would be a great addition...not necessarily a catalyst for mega-tourism, but it would be a step in the right direction.

Why would they consider Mayport when that location doesn't have a central magnet for tourism? True, cruisers would disembark there, but placing the museum next to where they get off the ship subtracts from having a true Jacksonville experience. It will just keep them near their ship.

Lake, I think infill would come if the ship is located at the proposed location. Another example of this is the condo complexes that have been built next to the USS Yorktown park called Patriot's Point, back in my hometown.

[RiversideGator]

Good points, CN.  My only concern is that the ship itself isnt that significant.  I wish we could get a better one basically but this may be all that is available and we could always add more later.  I would love to see a WWII era ship downtown and/or a Liberty ship.

[Steve]

I think it would be fun to pull this editorial in five years, especially if it kicks off a bunch of things in the the southbank area.

The only problem with the area is it isn't the most pedestrian friendly area in the world (outside of Friendship Park).  Two Prudential Plaza's site plan sucks (one of KBJ's gems of a building), and MOSH looks like a warehouse.  The only place to eat is River City Brewing Company, which is laid out like crap.  Being cut off from everything by the Main St bridge ramps (which could be brought down to grade someday), and the acosta ramps hurts things a bit.

However, this could be an opportunity to increase use of the water taxi, and dare I say it, the Skyway, with connectivity to the northbank.

Perhaps one day, there can be a garage with some ground level restaraunts.

[zoo]

Interesting that no writer wanted the byline on this op-ed piece -- I'm sure it's the opinion of everyone at the Times-Union?

Whoever came up with this thought needs to have their head (or collective head) examined.

This floating museum would be a welcome addition to the Downtown area. And if we're lucky, maybe it will even be open on the weekends!

[Charleston native]

Good points, CN.  My only concern is that the ship itself isnt that significant.  I wish we could get a better one basically but this may be all that is available and we could always add more later.  I would love to see a WWII era ship downtown and/or a Liberty ship.

Wouldn't basing a more significant ship (such as an aircraft carrier or battleship) be difficult to do in that location with limited dock space? It looks like they would have to physically move the marina.

[02roadking]

A letter out of the T/U today:

NAVY SHIP
Don't block the river

A ship museum docked near the River City Brewery Co. in the river was tried once before and the citizens voted against it. Has this been forgotten?

I don't think the Maritime Museum should be on a rusting ship in our river.

The current is too swift in downtown Jacksonville for a ship to be anchored there all of the time.

Also, I don't like the idea of blocking the river with a large ship.

I like the smaller ships visiting the area for viewing, but I don't like the idea of a permanent docking.

The St. Johns River is too valuable to us, as a city. We should not do anything to mar its worth or beauty.

I am all for a larger Maritime Museum. I think this is long overdue.

BARBARA HALL, Jacksonville

[thelakelander]

I guess to each his own.  I'm amazed that even when a group proposes to pay for something worthwhile, with their own money, people still complain big time.  I'd make the argument that the ship enhances the beauty of the river.  Afterall, ships have more in common with the river and Jacksonville's history, than the surface parking lot that we are currently blessed with.  Luckily, the Council has already given them their approval.

[Joe]

^ For all I know, the above letter writer has a valid point about water currents.

However, the complaint about blocking water traffic is nonsense. The railroad bridge is extremely low, and already blocks all but the smallest of boats from that half of the river.