Discussion, ALL HISTORY BUFF'S... Who are your favorite military leaders and why

[macbeth25]

Here's a website which describes how Admiral Yamamoto died. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Vengeance He was shot down by Army P-38G Lightning fighters on April 18, 1943, during the Solomon Islands campaign in the Pacific Theater of World War II. Information concerning Yamamoto's route and when he would be vulnerable had been gained through "Magic," the decoding of Japanese Imperial Codes.  At the time, pilots were told that a "coastwatcher" had spotted Yamamoto's aircraft, something which was done to avoid compromising Magic.    When his body was found, the admiral was clutching his katana or Samarai Sword and looked as though he were deep in thought. 
To make the kill, the Lightnings had to travel a total of nearly 900 miles, far beyond their normal maximum range.  While I haven't been able to confirm his involvement with the Admiral's being shot down, I do know that Lindberg, who had been a colonel in the Army Air Corps prior to World War II, shot down a Japanese fighter while flying as a civilian. He also taught pilots how to extend the range of their aircraft based on his historic Atlantic flight.  If you're interested, what happened to Admiral Yamamoto is quite a story.

[BridgeTroll]

They probably didn't call them "pt boats," but I'll bet they had and still do have vessels of similar size and function.  BTW, I'm sure you know the story of PT-109.  Here's a bit more about pt boats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PT_boat.

Jacksonville was one of the three primary builders of the PT boat... Huckins Yacht in Ortega...

US Navy PTs were predominately built by Elco Navy Division of Electric Boat Company, Bayonne, New Jersey, Higgins Industries in New Orleans and Huckins Yacht Corp in Jacksonville, Florida.

http://www.ptboats.org/20-12-05-trivia-001.html

http://www.huckinsyacht.com/

[macbeth25]

Now that's interesting.  I wasn't aware of Jacksonville's involvement.  Do they have a museum or anything? 

[JaxNative68]

No.  Jacksonville likes to demolish it's history rather than boast and profit from it.

[Dog Walker]

There is a museum in Louisiana to both PT (Higgins) Boats and landing craft which were also built in all these places.

Jacksonville was also where a large number of Liberty ships were built.  One of the shipyards that built them is the site where the Church of the Assumption and Bishop Kenny High School are now.  The ships were built here, would pick up military cargo a port on the east coast, gather with other ships and escorts in Halifax, Nova Scotia and then convoy across the Atlantic to England.  We were just about the southernmost point on this process.

Jacksonville was a major shipbuilding center for nearly a century.  Museum about that heritage?  One small space put together by volunteers.  Pitiful!

[macbeth25]

Those convoys across the Atlantic could be awfully dangerous.  Many ships didn't survive the trip.  The Winds of War , starring Robert Mitchum, is one of the movies which gives a fairly accurate description of what they faced.  Another movie, also based upon fact, is Proud . 
This is the story of the crew of the USS Mason , quite possibly the only American warship in WWII which was manned (except for its officers and petty officers) entirely by Black sailors. 
As she did in getting the Tuskegee Airmen into the air, Eleanor Roosevelt may have played a part in getting the Mason to sea in time for combat.
This was an escort ship; I think either a destroyer (DD) or a destroyer escort (DDE). Among their many exploits was one in which the Mason’s deck was actually cracked by a “storm of the century,” and they welded it back together.  I can’t remember if that came from the movie or from the book, but the story is based on fact and, I think, very well done. 
President Clinton had something to do with the crew’s finally being presented a citation.  That’s how long it took for them to receive the recognition they deserved.

[Ocklawaha]

Jacksonville also turned out some 100 +/- regular warships, transports, tankers etc... The old buildings sat along the "Shipyards Property." They were shaped like massive concrete stairs, with the lower stair closer to the river.
When I toured them I was with Eric Smith and Mildred Andru, we found HUGE museum like bunker buildings, with giant marine railroad tracks riding the roofs all the way into the river. The whole affair would easily have fit most any WWII ship this side of a BB, or CV.

Eric and Mildred wanted to rattle the cage and get the city to preserve one of the buildings for a hair brained idea that WE could actually have a maritime museum. So much for dreaming in Jacksonville.

OCKLAWAHA

[JaxNative68]

goes back to my comment above

[Sportmotor]

Rommel

brillant tacktitioner.

[macbeth25]

Yes, he was.  However, he was tricked by British magicians at least once.  On being told that there was no possibility the British could attack for about a month, Rommel returned to Germany, but on October 23, 1942, Operation Lightfoot unleashed about 150,000 men, a thousand guns and a thousand tanks in an attack which turned out to be a complete surprise.  Upon his hurried return, Rommel found his army in complete flight and disarray.  See Deceptions of World War II, William B. Breur, Castle Books, 2001, pages 143-149 for details.  If readers want, I'll tell more about it here. 

[Sportmotor]

Keep in mind he was DRASTICALLY limited by Hitler and his insaned orders. Under a leadership that was you know not crazy, and with other leadership not so scared to make a move or pass information without consulting higher authorty first I question if he would have fallen for it.
Alot of his failure was his leadership. If you cant get your own scouting information without asking the leader your doomed to lose one or two fights. The fact alone that he did so well under such limitations is amazing to me

[Ocklawaha]

Erwin Rommel studied Nathan Bedford Forrest, CSA, and Patton studied John S. Mosby, CSA. Patton came from a long line of soldiers, including General Hugh Mercer of the American Revolution. His grandfather, Col. George S. Patton was killed during the Battle of Winchester VA. Col Patton was promoted to Brigadier General by the Confederate Congress, but, at the time, had already died of battle wounds, so that the promotion was never official. A great-uncle, Waller T. Patton, died of wounds received in Pickett's Charge during the Battle of Gettysburg. Two other great-uncles, John M. Patton and Isaac Patton, served as colonels in the Confederate States Army. A great uncle was CS Navy officer William T. Glassell. Another relative, Hugh Weedon Mercer, was a Confederate general.

Rommel was never susposed to create a blitz campaign across North Afrika, time and again he was called on the carpet for moving when Hitler had told him to HOLD. He was even sacked of command at least once for the same problem. He had the genius for winning battles that were never susposed to happen. The whole Afrika Korps plan was simply to open another front to occupy the enemy so pressure would be less on the German armys in Russia. Rommel made sure the plan was not followed and with allied attacks on his fuel supply, his army was doomed.

OCKLAWAHA

[macbeth25]

One impression I've always had of Patton was that if he died during the war he wanted to be killed by the last bullet fired in the last battle.  I can only imagine how frustrating it must have been to die as a result of what may have been an automobile accident.  I've sometimes wondered if the event were an accident or someone assassinated him.  I think it took several days for him to actually die but I might have gotten that impression from the movie Patton.  This Wikipedia article has some interesting points: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton

[JaxNative68]

Charlie Chaplan: He and his evil Nazi regime enslaved Europe and tried to take over the world.

[Karl_Pilkington]

definitely Hamilcar Barca, what a badass and the father of Hannibal, who couldn't love that guy!