Lincoln Property pulls out of Riverside apartment project

[thelakelander]

It looks like the mixed use infill project next to 220 Riverside is in trouble.

The apartment developer who had been planning to bring an additional 300 apartments to Riverside Avenue has pulled out of the deal, according to real estate sources.

full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2013/03/04/lincoln-property-pulls-out-of.html

[tufsu1]

I'm sure that's because of the mbility fee....if we just got rid of that darn thing, the apartments would be constructed next month!

[urbaknight]

We all know that there's no one, nor will there be anyone to step in to build these much needed apartment units.
If it were one of those damn southside projects, there'd be developers coming out the woodwork to pick up the slack.

I guess we'll have to look at those run down grown over lots indefinitely.

And so the status qoe continues here in Jacksonville. GODDAMNIT!!!

[edjax]

Too bad to hear this news but realistically further development there is most likely going to hinge on the success or lack of success for 220 Riverside. 

[thelakelander]

or fixed reliable mass transit that ties the Northbank and skyway with Five Points and Riverside.

[BrooklynSouth]

Argh! Obstacles. Well, they'll regret pulling out. Brooklyn and Riverside are exploding.

[fsquid]

I'm sure that's because of the mbility fee....if we just got rid of that darn thing, the apartments would be constructed next month!

I'm sure those in favor of a moratorium will be spinning it that way.

[thelakelander]

^it didn't have a mobility fee....

[fsquid]

^it didn't have a mobility fee....

that's why I said "spin"

[edjax]

Agree with you lake on the fixed transit. I guess I was hoping for another development other than 220 prior to fixed transit as we know realistically that is quite sometime away.  Hopefully at least one other development would proceed without fixed transit if 220 is a smashing success. If there is no other that would be a sad indictment on our city.

[simms3]

Well just from my own personal analysis of the tax abatement granted both the Lincoln deal and 220 Riverside, Jacksonville has basically had to abate 10-20 years of taxes for these developments upon stabilization (I'm giving myself a ton of leeway room on the analysis front because given the lack of an in-place market for this product, I'm sure nobody actually knows what the real market will be like for rates...we all know what they should be given all-in costs and traditional costs of equity for ground up infill multifamily in risky sunbelt markets like Jax).  That's a major major incentive.  It tells me that in truth the private sector does not think there is naturally a market for these types of projects in Jacksonville.

I hate to break from normal opinion, but I'm not sure in this isolated case whether fixed transit or better sidewalks would make or break the deal.  It's a jobs issue.  These apartments are built almost exclusively for the 22-30 year old single/couple set who earn well above market average income (or students).  There is a 22-30 year old demographic in Jacksonville earning above the 22-30 market norm, but the bar for income for young people in Jax is so low already that it doesn't mean anything to earn more than average.  It's still not enough to clear the hurdle to be able to pay WAYYY above market rents for this type of infill.

Couple that with the fact that most [young] people live and work on the SS and there are young people few and far between Downtown, and there's not much of a basis to begin building infill that can be considered "fancy" for the market.  No students downtown either.

I think transit and better sidewalks are part of a total package that involves lifestyle/quality of life improvements that may make the city more attractive to young professionals and companies who employ them, but having a streetcar down Riverside right now is not a reason for or against these developments.  In Atlanta where traffic literally is about as bad as it possibly gets, most similar infill is actually being built in areas not served by rail (and very few young profs in the south even consider riding the bus).  So there's proof that rail doesn't totally mean infill development...jobs in proximity and availability of land and overall opportunity for a particular area to fill up and become cool/walkable mean a lot more for these types of projects.  In Charlotte sure the bulk of infill is in the South End near LYNX, but there's still a ton going up in other areas not served by transit.  In Nashville none of the infill going up is served by transit (the commuter rail has no riders and goes in opposite direction).

[fsquid]

so you think anyone will step in on this one Simms?

[thelakelander]

I don't necessarily disagree with Simms, other than infrequent commuter rail projects (such as Nashville's system) typically don't have a strong history of spurring TOD.  However, even streetcars with poor service have spurred hundreds of millions in secondary cities like Little Rock and Tampa. In this particular case, I'd probably argue the connectivity between Riverside and Downtown and the exposure of developable property between them with direct access to the river and I-95/I-10 interchange would lead to natural infill.  Elsewhere in the state, Orlando, Delray Beach, and St. Petersburg are good examples of second tier cities that have seen a lot of residential infill in and around their downtowns, despite not being huge centers of employment.

Anyway, Simms is identifying a specific residential product that appeals to a certain population willing to pay a certain price point at an overall much larger scale. However, we're talking about 300 units here, not thousands. Without knowing this particular deal's specifics, I believe downtown Jacksonville and Brooklyn have enough "jobs" already intact for someone to pull off a 300 unit apartment complex. Downtown and Riverside are in a sad state (worse than I ever imagined) if there's no market to support a 300 unit stick frame development. 

[Pinky]

I don't necessarily disagree with Simms, other than infrequent commuter rail projects (such as Nashville's system) typically don't have a strong history of spurring TOD.  However, even streetcars with poor service have spurred hundreds of millions in secondary cities like Little Rock and Tampa. In this particular case, I'd probably argue the connectivity between Riverside and Downtown and the exposure of developable property between them with direct access to the river and I-95/I-10 interchange would lead to natural infill.  Elsewhere in the state, Orlando, Delray Beach, and St. Petersburg are good examples of second tier cities that have seen a lot of residential infill in and around their downtowns, despite not being huge centers of employment.

Anyway, Simms is identifying a specific residential product that appeals to a certain population willing to pay a certain price point at an overall much larger scale. However, we're talking about 300 units here, not thousands. Without knowing this particular deal's specifics, I believe downtown Jacksonville and Brooklyn have enough "jobs" already intact for someone to pull off a 300 unit apartment complex. Downtown and Riverside are in a sad state (worse than I ever imagined) if there's no market to support a 300 unit stick frame development.

I agree that connecting Brooklyn with "downtown proper" by way of fixed mass transit would definitely encourage people to move into new developments.  Without it, any downtown workers would still need to drive into the core, and frankly, if they're going to have to hassle with commuting by car and parking anyway then they may as well move out to Gate Parkway or any of the other hundreds of upscale apartment communities.  There's little practical difference between a 5 and 15 minute drive downtown, and as it stands currently, no really compelling reason to move to Brooklyn.  Extending the Skyway down Riverside Ave and into 5 Points or even Avondale would certainly tip the scales.  If only we had all that moratorium money to fund such a thing.. 

[jcjohnpaint]

with the about 7 similar projects going up in the SS, why would this be so risky.  I know many people who would not mind commuting to DT from SS.