Lincoln Property pulls out of Riverside apartment project

[fieldafm]

That's a major major incentive.  It tells me that in truth the private sector does not think there is naturally a market for these types of projects in Jacksonville.

This news has very little to do with the Jacksonville market.  Lincoln was the equity partner, it shouldn't be hard to figure out what's in play here.

That being said, a streetcar would bring BILLIONS in private investment to Brooklyn, however it's looking like that fully funded streetcar starter line will never get built thanks to this moratorium debacle. 

[simms3]

That's a major major incentive.  It tells me that in truth the private sector does not think there is naturally a market for these types of projects in Jacksonville.

This news has very little to do with the Jacksonville market.  Lincoln was the equity partner, it shouldn't be hard to figure out what's in play here.

That being said, a streetcar would bring BILLIONS in private investment to Brooklyn, however it's looking like that fully funded streetcar starter line will never get built thanks to this moratorium debacle. 

I'm not sure I'm following you.  I understand 220 Riverside to be a multi-partner deal with traditional GP/LP structure with prefs, fees and promotes, and no debt.  Was this deal just a partnership between Lincoln and Pope & Land?  Could they not work out a partnership agreement?  Is Lincoln in trouble?  Is there no debt available for the deal either?  Juicy details please provide

Between 220 Riverside and the Fuqua retail site and Pope & Land's 4-block multifamily site, and YMCA's new building/surface lot, I'm not sure there is much left in Brooklyn to be developed, with or without streetcar.  (disclaimer: not to be a smart alec)  Someone would have to build a couple of Burj Kalifas on the remaing land to get to that Billions invested numbers.

with the about 7 similar projects going up in the SS, why would this be so risky.  I know many people who would not mind commuting to DT from SS. 

Most of the projects on the SS aren't equivalent.  Most units on the SS are being built garden style with surface parking.  There are only a handful of "hybrid" developments going up that have the wrapped garage and elevators, etc.  In the Sunbelt, the differences in the types of multifamily developments are pretty severe:

$1.00psf rents for class A garden apartments ($1,000 for 1,000 SF)
$1.50psf rents for hybrid apartments ($1,500 for 1,000 SF)
$2.00psf rents for budget highrise apartments ($2,000 for 1,000 SF)
$3.00psf for high quality construction highrise apartments with all the bells and whistles (these are typically buildings constructed for for-sale units, but converted to rentals)

In Jacksonville where there are almost no units renting in the $1.50psf and up range and the job market and salaries for young people (the target demographic of infill/contemporary hybrid apartments) aren't the best, it's a real gamble to build a bunch of higher rent units...which is why most new construction is still the standard garden style.  Land prices/parcel sizes suggest it makes sense to do garden, as well.

Heck, I'd just about call Pope & Land's/Lincoln's proposal for Brooklyn garden style!  And that's within a quarter mile of DT.

[thelakelander]

Between 220 Riverside and the Fuqua retail site and Pope & Land's 4-block multifamily site, and YMCA's new building/surface lot, I'm not sure there is much left in Brooklyn to be developed, with or without streetcar.  (disclaimer: not to be a smart alec)  Someone would have to build a couple of Burj Kalifas on the remaing land to get to that Billions invested numbers.

Brooklyn is similar in size to Tampa's Channel District. The Channel District saw about $2 billion invested after the opening of their streetcar line.  Before taking off, it had less "available" land then Brooklyn. Most of the infill projects replaced old warehouses and were between 5 and 10 stories.






From the streetcar on a rainy day.

[simms3]

You're right...I get to about the same area.

I haven't been to Channelside in years, is there retail/"mixed-use" there or is it predominantly mid-rise apartment with interior garage and the occasional office/loft office dev?

I grabbed this aerial and scoped both areas out a bit.  Seems like each has a few advantages, but in terms of living it seems like Brooklyn has more going for it.  It's closer to decent restaurants between Riverside and San Marco, closer to more office space, better highway access, not stuck in a tourist trap like Channelside is, and while overall Tampa better utilizes its waterfront, Brooklyn gets the edge here because it doesn't have heavy industry and isn't taken up by tourist traps (plus the Riverwalk through Brooklyn is one of the better things going in Jax and is peaceful, clean and safe).



220 Riverside with retail and hotel (which usually spurs on "convenience" retail), the entitled Pope & Land site, and Fuqua's supposed Fresh Market + in-line retail would make Brooklyn far more hospitable to full-time residents than Channelside, I would think.

I'm still not going to believe Jax is ready to support nearly the level of infill some of its peers are seeing built right now, but ~600 infill units in a 2+ year span isn't that hard to swallow (Charlotte, Raleigh, Nashville, Austin, etc are delivering about 1,500+ units a year of 220 Riverside type development now...some are predicting softening of rents and temporary oversupply of above market CBD rentals in these markets).  Even Atlanta delivered only about 800 such units last year, will deliver about 1,250 such units this year, and 3,500 such units next year.  It's all tied to solid job growth for the higher earning under 30 crowd (Atlanta was lumped in with Detroit until last year because of painfully late job recovery and an analyst who made a mistake on actual job growth, and so everyone who would normally allocate money to the city is late in the game).

[thelakelander]

I haven't been to Channelside in years, is there retail/"mixed-use" there or is it predominantly mid-rise apartment with interior garage and the occasional office/loft office dev?

Channelside pretty much serves as the entertainment and dining spot and Ybor City is roughly a mile north.  A few of the old warehouses have been converted into lofts and creative offices (I hope a few on Brooklyn's Park Street see a similar fate instead of demo) and the larger infill apartment/condo buildings have ground level retail space but last time I was down there and really paid attention (2011) most of that retail was empty (and probably some of those newer condo buildings as well). 














Back before the recession in 2006.

[tufsu1]

speaking of Channelside, there was an announcement last week of a new residential building there....with 29,000 square feet of retail...I believe that is the default size for the small Publix stores

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