My Afternoon Walk Along Hogans Creek

TD* · February 04, 2013, 10:51:10 PM

Lakelander You should team up with Urban Tallahassee.com and have a North Florida meet up sometime..

thelakelander · February 04, 2013, 10:59:46 PM

Yes, that would be cool.

tufsu1 · February 05, 2013, 08:32:33 AM

TD....Tallahassee and Jacksonville are 2 very different places....Tally has some built-in advantages, being the home of 2 major universities as well as the state capitol...that said, having spent a good bit of time in both, I'd choose Jacksonville in a heartbeat.

Tacachale · February 05, 2013, 09:01:29 AM

Words that have never been spoke before: "I went back to Tallahassee where its nice."

thelakelander · February 05, 2013, 09:20:36 AM

Tally has a cleaner DT, great schools and a compact cluster of lovely females but it's still a small town with limited economic opportunity for most coming out of school there. Nevertheless, it has come a long way since my days there.

Jacksonville, on the other hand, is a larger city with a lot of potential. It has a decent mix of suburban and urban environments at varying levels of vibrancy, so an underperforming downtown doesn't mean there's no vibe here at all. I'll admit, the opportunity to be a part of something great was a major attraction in my decision to relocate to Jax. Yes, DT and Hogans may not be in the best condition but there is a strong opportunity to be a part of a movement to restore them to their former grandeur. We should not look down on what smaller communities like Tallahassee are accomplishing. For example, what's going on with Gaines Street and Cascades Park is very impressive and something that should serve as an example of what Hogans Creek and Main Street can become.

Punch Balloon · February 05, 2013, 09:25:23 AM

Quote from: TD* on February 04, 2013, 10:41:19 PM

Suburban Jax is nice, as are the beaches...

lol While you're at it don't forget the cultural mecca that is the Town Center

tufsu1 · February 05, 2013, 09:30:46 AM

Quote from: thelakelander on February 05, 2013, 09:20:36 AM
We should not look down on what smaller communities like Tallahassee are accomplishing. For example, what's going on with Gaines Street and Cascades Park is very impressive and something that should serve as an example of what Hogans Creek and Main Street can become.

agreed....much of the cool things happening in Tallahassee (physical landscape) are based on groundwork laid by local planners 5-10 years ago.

fsujax · February 05, 2013, 09:38:13 AM

I couldnt wait to leave Tallahassee. It's nice but just a little too small. The universities dominate there.

thelakelander · February 05, 2013, 09:56:12 AM

I miss a lot of my friends made during my stay there but I was ready to go as well. I left town for good about a day or two after graduation and never looked back. Whenever I go back, I feel more and more out of place. The college kids actually look like kids now and refer to me as Mr. Davis.

CityLife · February 05, 2013, 10:33:52 AM

I've said some of this in other threads, so forgive me if I sound like a broken record, but Hogan's Creek absolutely needs a paid staffer of some sort to ever get things going, even if only part time. The city is simply not capable of making it happen. It needs someone to push all the various public entities, like COJ Parks Department, Mayor's Office, Army Corps, EPA, etc to act with urgency; it needs someone to fundraise amongst the large corporations in town, it needs someone to write and administer grants, organize cleanups, and it needs someone to fire the public up.

There are people who try to make things happen for Hogan's Creek, some of whom are quite capable, but without being paid to do it 20+ hours a week, simply aren't able to invest enough of their time to really get things rolling. Tallahassee was able to make it happen on the Capital Cascades Greenway because they had paid staffers actively working on it. Until that happens with Hogan's Creek, it will continue to flounder. Really a shame, because it would be a huge boost to all of Downtown and the Urban Core neighborhoods.....

02roadking · February 05, 2013, 10:36:41 AM

I noticed some New Ground trucks on both sides of Hogan Creek @ Bethal Church yesterday. Looks like they are replacing dirt. Is that what is going on? At first I thought Bethal was paving for a new lot.

CityLife · February 05, 2013, 10:57:54 AM

Quote from: Tacachale on February 05, 2013, 09:01:29 AM
Words that have never been spoke before: "I went back to Tallahassee where its nice."

Tacachale · February 05, 2013, 12:34:24 PM

^Oh, there are some cool things happening downtown and near the universities. But needless to say the way things look through the eyes of students and misty-eyed alums may be a bit rosier than the reality. I've always loved Tallanasty, but on the whole it's not what I'd offer as a Platonic example of "nice".

strider · February 05, 2013, 12:53:15 PM

Quote from: CityLife on February 05, 2013, 10:33:52 AM
I've said some of this in other threads, so forgive me if I sound like a broken record, but Hogan's Creek absolutely needs a paid staffer of some sort to ever get things going, even if only part time. The city is simply not capable of making it happen. It needs someone to push all the various public entities, like COJ Parks Department, Mayor's Office, Army Corps, EPA, etc to act with urgency; it needs someone to fundraise amongst the large corporations in town, it needs someone to write and administer grants, organize cleanups, and it needs someone to fire the public up.

About 2 years ago I had it all set up to be that person and would have crushed it, but as often happens in this town, someone else wanted the glory, and yet did absolutely nothing. I used to work at SPAR and agreed to stay working there (at peanuts of my market value) if I could be the project manager of the Hogan's Creek Greenway. I met with the designers of the plan, met with COJ, and started forming a Committee to help implement the plan. However, the ED of SPAR at the time was told that Hogan's Creek would be a high profile project and wanted to put her stamp on it. I said screw that and quit. Her being a former bookkeeper, with no discernible talent, intellect, or knowledge naturally did absolutely nothing with the project or with Main Street, as she was supposed to and the rest is history (or lack thereof).

There are people who try to make things happen for Hogan's Creek, some of whom are quite capable, but without being paid to do it 20+ hours a week, simply aren't able to invest enough of their time to really get things rolling. Tallahassee was able to make it happen on the Capital Cascades Greenway because they had paid staffers actively working on it. Until that happens with Hogan's Creek, it will continue to flounder. Really a shame, because it would be a huge boost to all of Downtown and the Urban Core neighborhoods.....

SPAR Council squashed many good things in the name of something, we just never knew what that was, other than perhaps greed. And that is also going to continue to make it harder to get the funding for an organization to do what you say needs done: get a grant to hire someone like you to take over the campaign for the parks.

I will say though that volunteers once did a great job of getting what was needed for the parks and almost succeeded in getting them restored. The contamination is the only thing that stopped them at the time. Even so, all of the improvements you see from the last 10 years or so were, both directly and indirectly, the result of those older volunteer efforts. The people advocating for the parks can't read your post and think, why bother then? They must be encouraged to continue the struggle. That is the only way that "needed paid staff" may ever get funded. And, like in the past, they might just be very pleasantly surprised at how successful they can be.

CityLife · February 05, 2013, 01:36:59 PM

The paid staffer I was talking about is needed to do the big picture things I mentioned like fundraise for major corporate donations, write and administer grants, and push all the public sector entities to make things happen. However, it is also needed to coordinate and organize volunteer efforts. As well as involve the public in the process. People need routine community meetings to keep them updated, they need active committees, they need monthly newsletters, and they need good news to keep them involved. When there is nobody doing these things, apathy sets in and little attention is given to the subject.

I have no doubt that over time the park can slowly be transformed by volunteer efforts. However, if you truly want to create a great city park, you absolutely have to have someone facilitating the process, pushing the city/state/feds, raising private money for improvements, writing grants, and publicly advocating for the park. That person/s can be a paid city employee dedicated solely to the project, or they can be funded by a grant or donations to a non-profit.

I can think of 3 missed opportunities off the top of my head just in the past few years that a paid staffer would have been able to improve on or at least create a better dialogue about...1. Use a grant SPAR is already approved for to leverage private donations. 2. Actually have a dialogue about making Hubbard St a pedestrian path, instead of redoing the bridge (the Greenway plan recommends this). This would have connected the Kids Playground/Dog Park to Confederate Park and made it more bike/ped friendly. 3. Create a more unique Disc Golf course. As designed, its pretty much a course in the middle of a field, and thus doesn't drum up much excitement. I personally advocated for a more unique course, but didn't have the time or energy to fight that battle. The last two "opportunities" are more reactionary things too. There are countless things a paid staffer could and would advocate for that haven't been.

I know its cool to DIY and have things be volunteer driven, but this isn't just some little neighborhood green space. Its a massive city park and an opportunity to create a truly great asset for the city and urban core. Imagine how little attention the St. Johns River would be given if there was no Riverkeeper Organization....that is what is currently happening with the Hogan's Creek Greenway.