How to work on a scary house.

[Debbie Thompson]

Agree Jax Unicorn.  We had to rewire the downstairs in our house.  Small holes in the baseboard, neat outlets.  No having to cut into the walls.  It worked well for us too, although I do see Ionia's point.  But, we have to remember these houses were not built for modern conveniences, and sometimes we have to modify them a bit.  As preservationists, we try to modify them only as much as we have to.

[Ocklawaha]

If your house has "lap siding"



you are at an advantage.  If my siding was beginning to rot, I would replace the boards with HardiPlank Lap Siding.  Historic Planning Department won't like it very much, but it is the only way you can keep the siding from rotting out again.

You will have to replace wood with wood.

Actually there is another option if you seek it out, we have cypress sawmills scattered all around us, including way up on Wigmore Street, at: Florida Cypress Wood Products,  Address: 1226 Wigmore St, Jacksonville, Florida
Their website is:  http://floridacypress.com

The manager at Florida Cypress worked with me in my 'recovery operation' of a foreclosure wreck at WGV. Yeah I know it's a cracker box of cheap wood and sheet rock but it now has hardwood floors and thanks to these guys, a beautiful custom fireplace mantel cut from Pecky Cypress.

Put some of this century old sinker lumber on your house and you can hear the termites packing up and hiking off to easier pickings.

Florida Black Water Cypress also has an informational website:
http://www.floridabackwatercypress.com/pecky-sinker-cypress/

Also:

http://sinkertreasures.com
http://www.virgincypress.com/home.html
http://www.recoveredlumber.com
http://riverrecoveredcypress.com

[Debbie Thompson]

Great info, Ock.  Thanks!

Here's another one.
http://www.heartpine.com/about/news/sunken_treasure.shtml

And another.  http://www.southernpinecompany.com/
Now this one has salvage material.  They save all the homes they can and salvage from those they aren't able to save.  Too bad there are any historic homes that go down, but at least in Savannah, the City allows you to salvage the houses. They don't automatically send it all to the landfill like they do here in Hootersville.

[sheclown]

Great resources.

They just don't make wood like they used to.

[Ocklawaha]

Osage Orange vases, Pecky Cypress mantel, Glass Tile surround, Travertine, Brazilian Chestnut floor.

Yes the century old (or older) Pecky Cypress is a natural formation, not created by worms. Actually a fungus develops in some very old and very hard, submerged cypress logs.

I had no trouble routing it out with my power router so I could recess the brackets over the mantel. Putting a screw, a new hole or cutting a tiny piece off for trim darn near set my tools on fire. Cutting into this stuff is like trying to put a thumb tack in stainless steel.

My finished product consists of Roma Travertine hearth, a glass tiled fire place surround and the Pecky Cypress mantel. Little by little the poop brown builders carpet vanished - replaced by hardwood. I ended up with enough hardwood leftovers to clad the kitchen island in the same flooring material.

I got lucky last summer when I stopped in to visit Greensburg, Kansas. You might recall that Greensburg was completely wiped off the face of the earth by a massive tornado a few years ago. Stopping was irresistible, remembering the May 3, 1999 tornado swarm in Oklahoma, and having taken the FEMA and NWS courses for storm spotting. Greensburg has a little museum gift shop and in it they have wooden vases made from century old, storm ravaged, Osage Orange fence posts. The fence posts were thrown all over the state in the tornado and the Kansas DOC Juvenile Division uses them to teach woodworking skills to the kids in their care. I bought several and they are a perfect addition to the Pecky Cypress, two of them even have nails from an ancient fence.

This is what Osage Orange looks like, it too is stone hard.

The moral of the story is TAKE YOUR TIME, DON'T settle for cardboard, particleboard, wood chip products, masonite and a hundred other plastic or 'wood product' gimmicks.

[sheclown]

Ock, your photos are beautiful.  And I agree, if the budget allows for it, by all means go for Cypress or other exotic woods.

Unfortunately, replacing rotting siding sometimes calls for more economical options.  You have to choose carefully, but the Hardiboard siding we have put on houses (including our new construction) has held up remarkably well.  There are problems with some of the newly constructed houses and the manufactured products on the exterior especially the Monarch windows which used factory-applied finger joint trim on the exterior.  So you have to be careful when selecting materials.

We used "Mirtec" trim which is a manufactured product.  It is held up very well.  But it was the more expensive manufactured trim product.

So, if the budget allows, use cypress or exotic woods including reclaimed, but if not, it is better to use the well-made manufactured products than cheap wood that they sell at Home Depot or Lowes.  That, my friend, is the "wood product gimmick" !

[Ocklawaha]

Thanks Sheclown.

I've seen lots of the Hardiboard product broken up, crumbling, chipping or pulling apart.  There appears to be a VERY strict way to install this stuff but even so the formulation has changed 8 times in the last 10 years.

There is a good informational site at:
http://www.structuretech1.com/2009/08/problems-with-james-hardie-siding-installations/

If it isn't installed letter perfect, you could be in for some replacement costs.

This photo is pretty typical of Hardiplank or Hardiboard with improper install.

The one natural product I would NEVER use is cedar shakes, save those for cooking fish!

THE BRENTWOOD - BELLAIR FIRE

In 1961, a construction crew working in Sherman Oaks noticed the smoke and flames in a nearby pile of rubbish. Within minutes, Santa Ana winds gusting up to 60 mph sent burning brush aloft and ultimately seared November 6, 1961, into Los Angeles' civic memory.

Life magazine called it "A Tragedy Trimmed in Mink," and glittering stars of stage and screen scrambled to do battle with the blaze that swept through Bel Air and Brentwood that day. Flaming embers danced from roof to wood-shingled roof, spreading the fire across the Santa Monica Mountains to the south and into the affluent Westside enclaves.

More than 300 police officers helped evacuate 3,500 residents during the 12-hour fire, and more than 2,500 firefighters battled the blaze, pumping water from neighborhood swimming pools to douse flames in some areas. Pockets of the fire smoldered for several days. Even as firefighters battled what was to become the Bel Air disaster, a separate fire had erupted simultaneously in Santa Ynez Canyon to the west, further straining local firefighting resources. That blaze was contained the next day after consuming nearly 10,000 acres  and nine structures and burning to within a mile of the inferno raging in Bel Air and Brentwood.

At least 200 firefighters were injured, many by the tar from the roofs of the homes, but no one was killed. Still, the fires were the fifth worst conflagration in the nation's history at the time, burning 16,090 acres, destroying more than 484 homes and 190 other structures and causing an estimated $30 million in damage.

Today, cedar shake shingles and siding are ILLEGAL in Southern California. Cedar is very light and extremely flammable, once it's lit it quickly burns to a ultra light, airborne ember. 

[strider]

When balloon framing first was introduced, the skeptics of the day said the houses would implode.  The materials were junk, the method flawed and the houses would never last.  And yet today, we see it as a superior construction method to what we do today.  Human nature doesn't seem to change much through the centuries.  Another interesting thing is that there is a big difference in the wood in houses built in the 1890's compared to the 1900's.  Local old growth to Georgia old growth?  Perhaps.  But the bottom line is that as we use our natural resources up, we still have to keep on truckin' so things like Miratec and Hardiboard come about and in many cases, when used properly, are far superior to many of the "natural" wood products of today.

Cedar, though your post, Ock, makes it seem like this terrible thing, was actually once considered a superior building product.  Light, strong and termite resistant, houses were built with cedar studs, cedar siding and are still all over Jacksonville.  In the end, while there are certainly concerns, no one should panic if they live in a house with cedar shakes on it or cedar studs in the walls.  If that were the case, then no one should live in a house with the old heart pine in it either.  It burns too well and hot.  Or many of the modern materials that give off toxic gases when burning.  Let's face it, the best thing is to avoid that fire to begin with.

Modern wood is, to be kind, often crap. Trees are "designed" to grow fast and straight.  A 6x6 from 100 years ago under one of these old houses probably has a safety factor of 10 to 1.  It can be more than half eaten away and still not sag between piers.  A new 6x6 is barely up to the task.  In fact, it has changed so much in the last few years I am beginning to look for alternatives as I fear new 6x6's may no longer be up to the task.  I believe that with the more modern construction techniques and the old wood, all of the steel we have to put into houses toady would not be needed. It is the strength of, or rather, the lack of strength of many of the materials, that require it.

It is interesting that to preserve the old, we need to embrace the new.

[buckethead]

Here is a subject on which I can comment with a level of expertise.

1) Traditional balloon framing is a good way to increase the lifespan of wood siding as well as cool a structure in the summer. (Marginally, but it does help) Balloon framing is still used in some cases, but these days it must be 'fire blocked' per code, so the chimney effect is lost, as well as any benefit for exterior siding/sheathing.

2) There is mention of 'steel' being required in modern framing, but it is not so much due to the lower quality of lumber now used, rather it is used to prevent the structure from falling 'up' (blowing away/over). The wood keeps the structure from falling 'down'. Steel is used as support in some applications, although pretty rare in modern residential framing. Usually used in custom framing, and in oceanfront applications where wood fails to meet wind loads determined by structural engineers as set within building codes.

3) This is not to suggest that wood used in older homes is not of better quality. Old growth heart pine is denser, has more tensile strength, is straighter, is more stable (less tendency to warp/bend), is prettier, and can withstand greater wind loads (stress) per board foot. Modern structural engineering makes these factors largely irrelevant.

3a) Old growth lumber came to us at a great environmental cost.

4) Q: If this is true, why are these 100+ year old structures still standing? A:Because they are still standing. (They have not been subjected to forces which would exceed their capacity) More modern structures, built with younger lumber are standing as well. My opinion is that manufacturers of structural tie downs and insurance companies have successfully lobbied state legislators to enact building codes that are in many cases superfluous to what is actually cost effective/structurally necessary in terms of buildings 'blowing away' in a storm.

5) Is the structural capacity of an older building greater than that of a newer building? Sometimes yes... most times, no.

6) Does balloon framing allow for increased lifespan of siding/sheathing/framing? Yes. It is IMO more resistant to water damage because water is allowed to drain/dry in of any part of the structure. ( The building is less water tight) This comes at a price: A much quicker incineration rate in cases of fire... (Chimney effect as mentioned by others) more danger for firefighters and rescuers... decreased response potential.

7) New techniques attempt to be more airtight/water repellent. This also comes at a price: Water, which will inevitably penetrate our feeble, yet earnest attempts to repel it, is not allowed to evaporate/drain. It will cause rot in every
instance it breaches vapor barriers. It's trapped. Where water gets trapped, rot occurs, and carpenter ants are close behind.

8.) Post-housing-bust framing carpenters gotta eat too...... CHA-CHING!

[sheclown]

Good post Buckethead.

I would be tempted to use steel on residential.  Termites, fire, mold.  Seems to make a lot of sense in Jacksonville.  I have used it in commercial work in the DC area -- mainly in office building remodels.   Pretty easy to get used to.  Carpenters can be trained to use metal studs.

Insurance would be easier to come by.

zip zip zip fine threaded screws and a good screw gun.

Our old growth wood did come at a great environmental cost -- which is one reason old houses should never be taken to the dump.  The most valuable wood in these houses (IMHO) isn't the fancy stuff inside as much as the huge girders underneath.  Okay, the fancy stuff inside is pretty cool too.

[sheclown]

Plaster Problems:

In Springfield, houses were plastered using (of all things) horse hair.  This is why some people's senses go berserk when removing or sweeping up the plaster.  It was applied using several coats, usually a base coat, a brown coat and then a final coat. 

After a hundred years or so, the plaster starts to fail (although the plaster is most vulnerable to over-zealous remodel plans).  It can fail in a couple of ways.  Sometimes the final coat fails and you rub the walls and watch it disintegrate.  This can be fixed by rubbing off the top coat and applying a good quality primer like Zinsser's Bulls Eye.  After the primer dries, you can put some drywall mud over the primer to even out the walls.

Sometimes the two top coats fail and it chunks off leaving the scratch coat. I would prime the area remaining and then use 45 minute mud (which is tougher than regular drywall mud and has to be mixed with water -- but warning here, it is also tougher to sand).

Quite often there are cracks.

A crack can be "opened up" with a sharp object and scooped out.  Apply drywall mud and tape (either the mesh or the paper).  When this dries, sand and reapply mud to a larger area.  It will, most likely take several coats to blend this in to the surrounding area.

But the most common way it fails is the keys in the back break off and it separates from the wall.



The keys are the spaces in-between the wood lathe where the plaster is forced through.  That blop of plaster dries and secures the material in place.  For a variety of reasons, the keys can sometimes begin to fail and then chunks of plaster separate from the wall.

You can buy fasteners which secure the plaster in place, but my experience tells me to remove it in affected areas.  I give it "the tickle test"

If you can easily remove it with your fingers, take it down.

You will probably end up with an uneven surface, so squaring it up may be a good idea.  Be careful tho'  don't get too carried away.  It begins to be like peeling skin off a sunburn.  Stop when you hit a healthy surface.

When your plaster is removed, and your surface is smooth (no nails sticking out, etc).  You can measure the area and use 3/8 inch drywall to replace the missing plaster.  About at this point, some purists are screaming REPLACE IT WITH THE PLASTER

[sheclown]

So, you can by all means replace it with plaster if you desire.

But a drywall patch is perfectly acceptable and will blend in just fine. 

A thing about the thickness:  most times 3/8 works best.  The plaster at the top of your wall is thicker than at the bottom.  So, it may be that near the bottom of the wall 1/2 inch works okay, but it is easier to add material to a drywall surface than to subtract it.

After you screw it into place, tape and mud as you would any drywall surface.  (Tape, mud, sand, mud, sand, mud, sand) And then prime and paint.

And btw, you can take a terry cloth rag and dampen it and wet sand the surface to minimize dust.

This is a job that with patience, a weekend warrior could tackle. 

Play with Plaster!! 

Save the walls, every last one of them.

[Dog Walker]

REPLACE IT WITH PLASTER!  (Ok, scream over)  Jim Coleman of Jim's Stucco and Plaster replaced square yards of plaster in my 1910 American Foursquare.  When finished it was as smooth as the inside of a bathtub and in a decade has never cracked.

Drywall attached to the original wood lathe has almost the same strength as plaster when it is first installed, but if it ever gets damp, even a little bit, it has no structural strength left at all.  The interior wood lathe and plaster walls are a significant contributor to the structure of a balloon framed house.

Never, never, never, never remove the lathe from the frame of the house.  If you have to then every square inch of the wall needs to be covered with 3/8" plywood before drywall or plaster is added back to finish.

How many hurricanes have our century old houses survived?

[sheclown]

I agree, NEVER NEVER NEVER remove the lathe.

But drywall certainly is an acceptable alternative to plaster.  It is cheaper & easier for DIY.

Remember, these houses need to work for the average Joe.  If funds are available,  by all means hire a plasterer.  Why not??  But if funds are not available, remember, you can do it yourself and do it cheaply.

[Dog Walker]

Just make sure you use the moisture resistant stuff!