We Love Avondale Attempts to Ruin Christmas Event

[Adam W]

I would love for MM to win the fight and be a great addition to the shoppes. I do not have an interest after that of seeing the other spaces fail. I support the idea of not gentrifying the area. I just believe MM will fit into the area vibe even though they are a chain.

They're not a "chain", like McDonalds or KFC or something; each is individually (locally) owned, individually designed and decorated, and beyond a basic core pizza formula have individually determined menus.  It seems like you buy "the brand" primarily.  Each is unique.

(The gas station would have been REALLY unique.  Way to shit all over "vision", COJ/RAP/WLA; This is why we can't have nice things.)

They are a franchise. And they are definitely a chain. Sure, the decor or building may differ from location to location, but that is common of a lot of chains (many of which are franchises). It doesn't mean they are the same as McDonalds or KFC, sure, but it doesn't mean they aren't a chain.

There are other chains located in the Shoppes of Avondale - that Mojo BBQ place is a chain (even if it's a small, local chain) and there are shops (not restaurants) that are definitely chains in the area. So any opposition based on the notion of a Mellow Mushroom franchise being a chain or not being unique is pretty specious.

I am not fan of MM, but I can't see how the addition of a restaurant would really hurt the area. I assume the opposition is based on fear of competition and maybe snobbery (the thought that MM is too "down market" and might attract the "wrong kind" of people to the area).

Who knows.

[Gators312]

Very sad state of affairs.   

Like Pinky's idea of Valentino putting a dongs and bongs shop in .  Stellar.   They would really shit a brick then

Would the zoning allow for a homeless day center?

At least the anti-parking crowd would be appeased.

[wsansewjs]

COJ/RAP/WLA = CRAPWALLA!

-Josh

[Cliffs_Daughter]

Very sad state of affairs.   

Like Pinky's idea of Valentino putting a dongs and bongs shop in .  Stellar.   They would really shit a brick then

I LOL'd too hard at this!

How long has this opposition to MM been going on there? Since well before I moved out of Jax, I think. It's just so silly (insert your own adjective to equal or better that one, I haven't had coffee yet).

Seeing how another city's established neighborhoods have embraced a bit of "new" to keep their current businesses thriving, I don't know how much longer Avondale's going to be able to ride on their name alone.

[thelakelander]

Where are you at these days, Cliffs_Daughter?

[Cheshire Cat]

I would like to interject a couple of thoughts on this discussion and they are not about whether or not MM should relocate in Avondale but rather the deteriorating behavior of folks who call themselves adults when things do not go their way.  Talk about having ones panties in a bunch! All of this went off the deep end quite some time back and it need not have happened nor need it continue.  There can be resolution if folks decide they want it.  Discussion should focus on that in my view and not on how to punish MM proponents or opposition.  It makes my skin crawl when I hear commentary that is mean spirited with the single aim of tearing down something or someone folks are angry at.  This site has long been known as a place where there is keen interest in seeing positive growth and development in all areas of our community. The key is building with positive ideas, not tearing down just because one is angry at this or that person.  When conversation turns to "boycotting" small business or characterizing an entire neighborhood as full of snooty folks, we move to painting all things with a broad brush that is not only inaccurate but damaging.

I have to wonder why some, not all, who have commented on Avondale's merchants or wishing them failure or a taste of their own medicine are in fact tearing down the very type's of businesses that keep an area healthy.  When one wishes them failure, one also wishes that their employees fail as well, which means job loss and heartache.  Really people, really?  Not to mention the ripple effect impacting the suppliers who serve the Avondale businesses.

With all that is facing our communities, our nation and the world it seems absurd that so much attention and angst should be expended in an emotional tit for tat over a Pizza restaurant.  Whether one sides with MM or "some" of the citizens and merchants in Avondale, it is of little help to verbally tear apart a community by stating the residents are snobs and the merchants should be boycotted.  I live in Avondale and can easily stroll from home to the shops.  I have enjoyed them and their ambiance for years and during those years I have watched many a business come and go, succeed and fail.  That's just the way it works.  I have also seen and will continue to see, I am sure, conflicts over who does what when it comes to development in the Avondale area.  The shops will not fail and the neighborhood will not implode over this issue that much is a fact. 

Avondale is a well loved historic neighborhood.  Those of us who live here understand that there is a great deal of concern over keeping the historic integrity of the community intact and that even changes to one's own home will be scrutinized.  It comes with the territory.  Parking in and around the neighborhood has and will always be a problem.  Nothing new here.  Folks who chose to live close to the shops area should have understood that along with the enjoyment of a stroll to shop or dine in the shops comes the trade off of putting up with extra traffic.  While I can understand it gets annoying, I also realize that anyone living in close proximity to the shops have known this to be something that comes with living there.  This is also not new.

The mess at Christmas in Avondale was pure foolishness and in my view was hastened by hard headed folks on both sides of the MM issue.  Push came to shove and it ended up in ugly and there was no need for it.  All in all what I am saying is this.  We in Jacksonville will always have a problem moving forward when we participate in discussion and behaviors that continually paint ourselves as backwards, combative and behaving badly over things like a pizza restaurant.  In the end, we will have the pizza shop in one form or another.  So now would be the time for folks to "get over it" and work towards getting along in an ever changing world, even in the small corner of it called Avondale.  Folks on both side of this issue need to grow up and get a grip!



Diane Melendez

[wsansewjs]

The way I see it is so bloody simple. Mellow Mushroom basically had to BEND FORWARD and had to do everything of what others asked them to, THEN get thrown under the bus by the same people who asked them.

So please, it is not that HARD to comprehend the idea that they should allow a new business into a such OMG-HOLY-SACRED part of the town known as "Avondale", that same business that WANTS to reuse existing historic building, with STRONG emphasis in SUPPORTING a community

Please punch me if I am missing or drinking the kool-aid or even tainted water around here in Jacksonville.

What it should bloody have gone down:

Mellow Mushroom: "HAY GUISE! We want to build a mega awesome pizza restaurant and support other businesses by being part of Avondale truly, bring the energy so Avondale can prosper! YAY RIGHT? RIGHT? -nods-"

WLA / RAP / COJ: We have NO objection, but please proceed forward with few condition like make sure your parking spaces are set up correctly, and don't be so noisy at late nights"

Mellow Mushroom: "Oh no problem! We love to do that for you!"

Few months later, a magicial Mellow Mushroom place pops up using the existing buildings, and OH MY GOD ITS SO BEAUTIFUL AND AWESOME -sparkles sparkles-  OH WOW That gas station is still there, oh sweet! We can eat around the gas pump and rub those vintage stations for good luck. BEER IS ON THE HOUSE! Bring the pizzas out! Let the savoring aroma of delicious pizza fill the air, and all the businesses around start to thrive more and more.

The patrons would cheer delightfully and GOOD TIMES would begin now and yet to come for the Great Avondale as God smiles upon the little historical district.

BUT NOOOOOOOOOO! Here we are, being bunch of kids still being stubborn and bickering over silly-dally things, and not a single screw has gone into the new Mellow Mushroom place. How depressing...

-sigh-

-Josh

[KEGreene1]

I haven't heard or seen a peep of denial or support for WLA anywhere since Saturday's incident.

Are they feeling a little ashamed?  Or are they revelling in their recent exercise?

[JeffreyS]

To say there is blame on both sides is not just wrong it shows bad judgement Cheshire Cat.  MM has bent over backwards to make this project work. Every time MM acquiesces to what RAP and WLA say is their issue RAP and WLA change their position to be even more restrictive.  MM has behaved well since day one and that has brought them vocal support from some on the sidelines.  MM continues to try to be a good neighbor to people who want run MM out.

[Cheshire Cat]

Josh, most Avondale residents don't see the shops of Avondale as Holy ground.  LOL  They are lovely to have, make no mistake about it, but the idea that residents of Avondale are all against a pizza shop because the community is just to good for them is inaccurate.  What is behind every objection to the new business is some sort of fear and when people are fearful, they don't negotiate or listen well much of the time. The list of fears goes something like this.  Fear of change, fear of parking loss, fear of more parking on surrounding streets, fear of lost income on the part of other businesses and restaurants, fear of alcohol, fear of noise and fear of lost ambiance.  I am sure I could name more if I thought about it. 

As someone who has worked in both the areas of historic preservation and commercial revitalization a few things are glaringly apparent.  First is that all this drama over a new shop is over the top and not needed.  Secondly, you can bet your sweet bippy the MM pizza shop "will" come to Avondale in one form or another.  They have followed the rules, are not breaking laws and have tried to comply with area residents. This can become a long drawn out pissing match and legal battle or people can decide to move forward together in an amicable way.  Moving forward in an amicable way is the way out of this mess.  I feel that many just don't realize that if they can speak and listen with reason, all the what if's can be worked through and end up with an improvement to the shops and the area.  The shops and the neighborhood will go on as they have now for many more years to come and you can bet that the businesses will change, grow, succeed and fail as they always have regardless of what people fear may or may not happen.  On that note, I would simply ask that while this discussion continues that the entire community and it's residents not be verbally trashed in the process or because of the actions of a few.  Avondale is full of good, happy and down to earth people and businesses that should not be hurt because of this drama.  I hope that all who have fought on both sides tooth and nail over this will stop the drama, it is really time to grow up on all sides. 

Yes MM is a franchise, but what amazes me is that some in the shops who fear the competition or added traffic just don't see that having this well known franchise will be a financial draw to other restaurants and businesses.  The pizza chain has name recognition and that alone can bring new people and new patrons to the shops that will in turn enrich the pockets of other businesses in our little town.  The restaurants all offer venues different enough that someone who may come to the shops once for pizza may return another day to go to the brick or have breakfast at the Fox.  Others who would come for the pizza will find and array of really cool specialty shops and patronize those. They are not seeing the forest for the trees.

The gas station is one that I frequented and patronized in order to shop and spend my money locally and help to keep a small business alive.  It was taxes that did the station in.  I know this because I had several conversations with the owner about it.  The station itself was and is wholly unattractive and pretty much everyone knows it should go away.  No, it is not historic or worth saving.  The empty station lot has however provided some needed parking and it is for this reason alone that some would rather keep the old eyesore and fight anything that will take away haphazard parking lot the station has now become. 

The residents near the shops do know that it means they will deal with a bit more noise and parking congestion.  Some bristle at the thought, but I don't think anyone held their heels to the fire and made them buy homes where they did.  While they can expect some relief from noise, waste disposal and the like, moaning and groaning that the business will prove to be an imposition does not really wash as they have always had these issues to deal with.  If they can't stand it any longer than relocate to another area of Avondale or Jacksonville.  There is just too much bellyaching going on by some who have known the dynamic of this area for ages.  Get over it.

[Cheshire Cat]

Jeffrey your post went up before my last comments which I think you will see don't find fault with MM, let me clarify.  My statement about bad judgement was directed solely at the incident during the Christmas festivities in Avondale.  I am not suggesting that MM has not negotiated in good faith, not the other side for that matter.  My point was and is that the choice was made in the face of ongoing drama to pursue having a presence during the event which as property owners they certainly had the right to do.  In hindsight, perhaps it would have been better all the way around to have avoided the entire confrontation.  It is tantamount to one side trying to show the other who is boss and that they won't budge.  That is a tact that will only lead to more drama over the issue which in fact it did. In my opinion it was petty of those in the Merchants group to try and block the participation of the MM property owners, but it was equally foolish for the MM property owners to push the issue to make a point.  It exploded in everyone's faces and nothing positive has come of it.  That's the grown up, act like adults part that everyone failed at.  IMO



Diane M.

[JeffreyS]

I can see your point but I still find it hard to equate the actions of both sides.

[Cheshire Cat]

Likely because you are very passionate about the issue and I understand the passion, believe me I do. Right now this situation has reached the point where fairness and hurt feelings will never be brought to balance.  Someone will walk away from this feeling taken advantage of.  That's the nature of this type of negotiation.  Some will have to give to get on both sides.  Until all involved parties come back to the table and behave amicably as well as negotiate in good faith on all sides the situation will not find resolve.  That requires everyone to put on their big boy and big girl pants and act like thinking adults and get this deal done. 




Diane M.

[Josh]

Jeffrey your post went up before my last comments which I think you will see don't find fault with MM, let me clarify.  My statement about bad judgement was directed solely at the incident during the Christmas festivities in Avondale.  I am not suggesting that MM has not negotiated in good faith, not the other side for that matter.  My point was and is that the choice was made in the face of ongoing drama to pursue having a presence during the event which as property owners they certainly had the right to do.  In hindsight, perhaps it would have been better all the way around to have avoided the entire confrontation.  It is tantamount to one side trying to show the other who is boss and that they won't budge.  That is a tact that will only lead to more drama over the issue which in fact it did. In my opinion it was petty of those in the Merchants group to try and block the participation of the MM property owners, but it was equally foolish for the MM property owners to push the issue to make a point.  It exploded in everyone's faces and nothing positive has come of it. That's the grown up, act like adults part that everyone failed at.  IMO

Diane M.

I'd hate to think where civil rights would be in this country with this kind of dangerous thinking.

[Cheshire Cat]

Josh, we are talking about a pizza shop and petty adult bickering, not race relations. You know that.  Let's keep the discourse about the topic please and not create drama where there is none. Until folks learn how to do that and get past knee jerk commentary, there will be little hope for advancement of any salient point. 



Diane M.