More Passenger Rail?

[Ocklawaha]

Honest, I didn't write this... Some of you will recall my howls at the HSR plan to get the train off I-4 and on the CSX alignment, it appears that 'The Eagle Has Landed!'

I-4 Corridor Passenger Rail Line Proposals Re-emerge

By Tom Palmer
THE LEDGER

LAKELAND | High-speed rail may be dead in Florida, but the idea of building some kind of passenger rail line along the Interstate 4 corridor between Orlando and Tampa is not.

The project is tenth on a list of "high priority transportation initiatives" that is being circulated by a regional transportation planning group for comment.

The group, called the West Central Florida MPO Chairs Coordinating Committee, is scheduled to formally approve the list in March, based on the comments received between now and then.

The committee includes representatives from Polk, Hillsborough, Pinellas, Pasco, Citrus, Hernando, Sarasota and Manatee counties.

The list is part of a long-term strategy to improve traffic movement and to promote economic development, Hugh Pascoe, staff services contractor for the committee, told the Central Florida Planning Council on Nov. 14.

The proposal, which still is in the conceptual stage, involves somehow extending the Orlando-based SunRail commuter rail system, which broke ground earlier year, along the Interstate 4 corridor using existing railroad lines.

"SunRail created a model for reusing freight rail corridors; it's something we cannot ignore despite what happened to high-speed rail," Pascoe said.

Plans were nearly completed for the United States' first high-speed rail system between Orlando and Tampa when Gov. Rick Scott decided in February 2011 to reject $2.4 billion in federal funds to help to build the line and turn it over to private companies to operate. That decision killed the project, which would have included a stop somewhere in Lakeland.

[thelakelander]

This isn't anything ground breaking.  Growing up down there, they've always wanted some type of passenger rail on the CSX tracks between Orlando and Tampa.  Tampa has created plans in the past that indicated some form of rail to Lakeland and St. Petersburg on CSX track in the past.  A few years back, Amtrak pitched a similar alternative. The breakthrough still needed is a green light from CSX.

[tufsu1]

yes....the CCC (regional MPO down there) and TBARTA have a list of major regional priorities....of course, the first 6 on the list are roadways widenings....the next 4 are premium transit.

and as Lake pointed out, just because high speed rail dies doesn't mean there isn't a desire for rail linking Lakeland and Tampa....that said, CSX has pretty much said no way to sharing their tracks and/or ROW....which is why folks are focusing on the I-4 median instead.

[Ocklawaha]

Certainly, just as Daytona Beach fancies itself as the eastern terminus for Sun Rail. I think the change here is found in this paragraph:


The proposal, which still is in the conceptual stage, involves somehow extending the Orlando-based SunRail commuter rail system, which broke ground earlier year, along the Interstate 4 corridor using existing railroad lines.

Which is exactly what they should have been doing all along. The corridor is ideal for a frequent 'Cal-Train' type service from Deland to Tampa.  The natural extension of this closes the gap between Jacksonville and Deland. If JTA ever operates a commuter train on the 'A' Line through Orange Park, Green Cove Springs and Palatka, the next stop would be Deland. I think what we are seeing is very early movement toward a more realistic plan and a rebirth of the entire Jacksonville-Orlando-Tampa corridor. 

As for CSX?  They ARE playing ball with NY, and NJ as well as most of the other northeastern states so they can be brought to the table in Florida as well. CSX makes it's money off of trains on it's tracks and if it sees the opportunity for profit or 'free capacity expansion' they'll come around. It won't matter much if those trains are Amtrak or Sunrail.  If at some point the state gets ownership of the rest of the 'A' line it could pave the way for All Aboard Florida trains to be tossed into the mix.

[thelakelander]

The proposal, which still is in the conceptual stage, involves somehow extending the Orlando-based SunRail commuter rail system, which broke ground earlier year, along the Interstate 4 corridor using existing railroad lines.

Again, nothing new.  This has been mentioned in the past.  The corridor is an ideal one for Cal-Train type rail service.  Even Paula Dockery mentioned it a few years back when she tried to kill the HSR project during the Crist era.  The key today is the same as it was a decade ago.  Finding common ground between what CSX wants and what whatever governmental agency is willing to pay.

[Ocklawaha]

Paula Dockery was trying to kill Sunrail.  Somehow she had it in her head that Sunrail would negate the HSR project when in reality Sunrail would have been the best thing ever to happen to the HSR.  Her husband was pushing the HSR.

I'm not questioning that this is nothing new, but the tilt toward common sense is refreshing after the "flying train goose chase!" And consider that this is probably news to much of our readership.

If North Florida had anything like progressive politics, we'd be talking about regional corridor services to Tampa via Waldo and Ocala, service to Gainesville, and trains to Tallahassee and Pensacola. Unfortunately our conversations are about how wide I-95 is going to be, toll lanes, and a unneeded as well as unwanted turnpike.

SAN FRANCISCO


JACKSONVILLE

Kind of makes you wonder doesn't it??

[thelakelander]

I'll try not to rain on your optimism. I may just be the negative Nancy but I'm not holding my breath on seeing anything more than the pathetic existing Amtrak service happening on that line anytime soon.

[Ocklawaha]

Yes it will probably stay that way until the public gets sick and tired of traffic (as happened in Miami-West Palm), only then will they pass the needed financing for rail.

Again, JACKSONVILLE'S MOBILITY PLAN is a masterpiece that promises to keep us from experiencing such pain.

[tufsu1]

CSX has no interest in selling or sharing the Tampa-Lakeland corridor....the growth potential between the Port of Tampa and the new Winter Haven intermodal terminal is huge!

[spuwho]

Henry Posner of IAIS (Iowa Interstate) said recently he would love to host Amtrak or any other carrier on his line from Chicago to Omaha. He runs IAIS on the old Rock Island.

So it really comes down to who has the most to gain from the new bacon in rail. CSX isn't really hungry unless you feed them something. (for example SunRail purchasing ROW and liability in return for Jaxport access)

IAIS is hungry and will serve anyone, CSX is not and can nose up if it doesn't meet their liking.

Unless there is a government trough to feed from to reduce the risk, they (CSX) can sit tight.

[Ocklawaha]

CSX is in business to move wheels over it's rails for the maximum profit the market will bear.

From the south end of the new Winter Haven Terminal the CSX had a onetime mainline stretching from West Lake Wales through Bartow and on into Tampa so the 'A' line is not the only solution for freight.

I don't think there is a railroad anywhere in the world that would reject the idea of a second or third main track and new PTC signaling.  While they might appear to be playing hard ball, they're watching to see how much sweeter the deal might become.  BTW, BNSF just completed a third mainline all the way from Chicago to LA and Amtrak/KA/CO/NM might soon be the proud owners of the original Santa Fe main from Albuquerque to Newton, KS. Everything has a price when you answer to the Board of Directors.

I wouldn't be too worried over CSX, I bet they've leased some of that RofW for pipes and cables too!

Otherwise the Iowa Interstate runs along the the preferred route between Chicago and Omaha passing through Rock Island/Quad Cities and Des Moines along the way.  Amtrak has long coveted this line as it has the Florida East Coast, but Obama's Amtrak has been no more change or expansion minded then Ronald Reagan's.

[thelakelander]

I think it's clear that it all boils down to how much you're willing to pay a freight railroad in order to gain access to the tracks. To date, we haven't been willing to go that far in Florida as a whole.  However, I do believe that the Orlando deal pretty much sets the path.  You really want access?  You're going to have to pony up with a bunch of cash and make them an offer they can't refuse.

[tufsu1]

but why pony up cash to CSX for ROW when FDOT owns enough land on the I-4 median?

And don't overestimate the attractiveness od downtown Lakeland....the city is very annoyed about the potential for increased freight traffic in their downtown....and FDOT is doing a study to determine possible rail bypasses.

[thelakelander]

Winter Haven is perfectly fine with Lakeland pouting about their new CSX yard.  With that said, if FDOT doesn't slam lexus lanes in the median, I could still see it being used for some form of rail.  DT Lakeland is attractive, but the draw of Disney, I-Drive, Tampa's casino/fairgrounds, and Florida Poly will outweigh it and the troubles of dealing with CSX in the long run.  If All Aboard Florida's Orlando-Miami line is successful, I could see them making a play for the I-4 median.

[tufsu1]

^ the I-4 master plan was always set up for 6 regular use lanes, 4 special use lanes, and rail...so there is room for both express lanes (yes, they are Lexus Lanes and you can count on them getting built) and AAF