Restaurants that charge for water

[David]

I've encountered this a few times so I'm not terribly shocked, but the other night at Yama's hookah over off Southside, a friend asked for a water. They said no, they only sell bottled water. We said no thanks. Mind you we are buying food, alcohol and a hookah.

Later in the evening my friend went into the restaurant portion of the place to get some tap water, they obliged and gave it to him. When he came out one of the hookah lounge employees scolded him for getting water, saying "don't do that again"

I've been to a few places that charge for water, I usually just say no and don't get water there, but I believe the way the server scolded my friend for his act of treason is that caused the issue. Of course we had to take to the foodie sites and document our harrowing experience:

http://www.urbanspoon.com/r/44/1701448/restaurant/Southside/Yamas-Hookah-Jacksonville

What surprised me more is how many people think you're supposed to get water for free.  As far as I know, there's no law that states you have to give water to the customers, even if serving alcohol. But, it's a pretty basic amenity that usually makes the customer happy.  Maybe it's a tactic restaurants do when they're aiming for a higher end clientele.

Honestly, I have no problem with it, but the group I was with was pretty upset about it. Water. Such a catalyst for controversy.

[David]

I wasn't sure about food only, I was leaning towards they're supposed to provide it if you're consuming alcohol.  Some of the place I've been to (a few up in NY) have charged for it and I never thought twice about. Not usually a fan of tap water anyway.

Well that's interesting. My friend had every right to be steaming mad then. For me, there's just too many other options with great service in town. That was our first (and probably last) visit to that particular hookah bar.

Yesterday we stopped by the Casbah and they gave us (totally shocking) water. They even asked if we wanted it! No need to go on stealthy special ops mission!

[David]

Good to know. It is an odd policy for a restaurant to have, legal or illegal.  I don't see the benefit of it.

[Bewler]

Just to clarify, I wasn’t steaming mad about the water, that would be silly. I was mad about how the manager  confronted me on it. He came up to where I was sitting and said, “I saw what you did. Don’t you do that again. If you want water we have bottled water”

To which I said, “I don’t want your f***ing bottled water”

If he had just said, “Hey will you please not do that again?” and not been a dick about it then I wouldn’t have cared at all, but no he had to be a demanding tough guy a-hole, so I did the same.

[Tacachale]

By state law food service establishments must have drinkable water available, but they don't have to offer it for free, according to Florida Statute 509.221 1(b). There may be a local ordinance or something.

However, it is a stupid, stupid business practice not to offer free water to your paying customers. Several years ago the crew and I had the same exact experience at a different hookah joint. A friend tried to order a glass of water; we were regular customers, a big group who ordered lots of food, drinks, and baccy, so I was pretty miffed and asked to see the manager. The guy apologized, and explained they do that because of all the under-21 parties who come out and take up tables and just split one $10 hookah for hours at a time. I can understand that, but as frequent customers it really rubbed us wrong, and we dropped that place from our weekly Mediterranean rotation for a while. Talk about a dumb thing to lose customers over.

[David]

@ Bewler

Yeah that guy took a lot of pride in his refusal of your free water. He refilled our coals 5 times but didn't want to give out a glass of tap water! I wasn't there for the confrontation so i only got to see the before and after.

Like Tacachale said, it's a very poor policy to have. But it did get me thinking.  It's definitely something we're not used to. And yes, don't scold your customers for trying to obtain it "illegally"

Bewler's a water bootlegger!

[Adam W]

Well Im glad you did, for the above stated reasons, Bewler.

Again, because of the heat situation here, it is a dangerous policy for a restaurant to pursue, imo.

But there is another reason to turn down plastic bottled water:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/141950-plastic-bottles-toxins/

Although there are many health benefits from drinking increased amounts of bottled water, you may be getting more than you bargained for. Plastic containers are composed of chemicals that can leak out of the bottles and into the fluid. This occurs not only with water bottles, but also soda bottles, sports drink bottles and the most worrisome, baby bottles. However, there are steps you can take to decrease the incidence of exposure to these toxic chemicals.

Types of Toxins
There are a number of chemicals used to manufacture plastic bottles that can have deleterious health effects. Polyvinyl chloride (PVC), also known as vinyl, is a synthetic product widely used in the production of plastic bottles due to its versatility. It is considered a plasticizer additive, which means it increases the flexibility of the plastic. PVC leaks a softening chemical called phthalate. Besides phthalates, probably the most well-known plastic toxin is bisphenol A. Bisphenol A (BPA) is a chemical used in the production of polycarbonate plastics, which are used in food and drink packaging, as well as water and baby bottles. Bisphenol A is the most concerning toxin found in plastic bottles because it is so widespread. John Bucher, Ph.D., the associate director of the National Toxicology Program, stated, "The 2003-2004 National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey conducted by the CDC found detectable levels of BPA in 93% of 2,517 urine samples from people six years and older."


Health Effects in Adults
There are numerous health effects from consuming the toxic chemicals in plastic bottles. Phthalates are considered phyto-estrogens, meaning they mimic estrogen. They can interfere with pubertal development in girls and can increase breast cancer risk in adulthood. In 2007 Dr. Mary Wolff reported in the journal of "Environmental Health Perspectives," "A wide spectrum of hormonally active exposure biomarkers were detectable and variable among young girls, with high maximal concentrations...They varied by characteristics that may be relevant to development." The chemical bisphenol A has also been associated with an increased risk of breast cancer as well as numerous other health problems. The Journal of the American Medical Association reported in 2008, "BPA were associated with an increased prevalence of cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and liver-enzyme abnormalities." BPA has also been shown to cause infertility and obesity.

Health Effects in Infants
The most disturbing health effects are those associated with consumption of chemicals from baby bottles. Like in adults, BPA disrupts the endocrine system in infants and children. Moreover, a January 2010 report from the FDA discussed the negative health effects associated with bisphenol A exposure of fetuses, infants and young children. The report stated, "On the basis of results from recent studies using novel approaches to test for subtle effects, both the National Toxicology Program at the National Institutes of Health and FDA have some concern about the potential effects of BPA on the brain, behavior, and prostate gland in fetuses, infants, and young children."

Identification
Despite growing concern of chemical leaking, plastic bottles are still manufactured with PVC and BPA. However, since 1988 plastic bottles have been identified by "resin identification codes." These codes were created to help with recycling and can be found on the bottom of plastic bottles marked with a triangle emblem. Most plastic bottles are made out of polyethylene terephthalate, which is marked with a "1." Reusable plastic water bottles are from high-density polyethylene, which is marked with a "2." Polyvinyl chloride is marked with a "3," low-density polyethylene with a "4," polypropylene with a "5," polystyerne with a "6" and polycarbonate is marked with a "7." The plastics to avoid are numbers 1 PET, 3 PVC, 6 PS and 7 PC or PLA. Numbers 2 HDPE, 5 PP and 4 LDPE are considered the safest bottles. For bottles that are reused or rewashed, such as baby bottles, use number 5 PP.

Prevention/Solution
To reduce the risk of plastic toxin exposure, drink water from a filter or out of a cup or glass. Consider using glass bottles in place of plastic bottles, including glass baby bottles. Some plastic bottles are actually labeled "BPA free"; choose these bottles instead. Do not heat bottles or drink bottled water left in a hot car. Extreme heat can cause the degrading of the bottles, resulting in more chemical leaking. Do not fill plastic bottles with hot liquids. Only heat foods or beverages with glass or ceramic containers. Last, when using a plastic baby bottle, heat the liquid first in a nonplastic container and then transfer it to the plastic bottle. Taking these simple steps can decrease the risk of chemical exposure.


http://www.livestrong.com/article/141950-plastic-bottles-toxins/#ixzz2AiubaB00

BPA is not normally found in the type of bottles that bottled water comes in, so you should be fine. Unless you're drinking out of a baby bottle or maybe a reusable sports bottle.

[Bativac]

I've encountered this a few times so I'm not terribly shocked, but the other night at Yama's hookah over off Southside, a friend asked for a water. They said no, they only sell bottled water. We said no thanks. Mind you we are buying food, alcohol and a hookah.

Later in the evening my friend went into the restaurant portion of the place to get some tap water, they obliged and gave it to him. When he came out one of the hookah lounge employees scolded him for getting water, saying "don't do that again"

Charging for water, I would have dealt with. But being scolded by management, for being given free water by another part of the same business you're spending money in? I'd have walked out, then and there. My wife will stick to the Casbah to satisfy her occasional hookah craving.

[Bewler]

Charging for water, I would have dealt with. But being scolded by management, for being given free water by another part of the same business you're spending money in? I'd have walked out, then and there. My wife will stick to the Casbah to satisfy her occasional hookah craving.

I would have done that if I didn't think they would have tried to stick David with the whole bill. I wasn't trying to make this his problem also.

Edit: But henceforth this scandal shall be known as Watergate

[David]

Charging for water, I would have dealt with. But being scolded by management, for being given free water by another part of the same business you're spending money in? I'd have walked out, then and there. My wife will stick to the Casbah to satisfy her occasional hookah craving.

Yeah that's what I thought too (after we left) He should have been yelling at his fellow staff member.  Bewler's experience was a case of bad customer service, but it did make me curious as to why restaurants charge for water in the first place. It sounds like as long as they have it available they have themselves covered. They can charge whatever they want.

It's not like i'm too cheap to pay for it, believe me way too much of my paycheck goes to the local establishments around this city. It's just....it's water, c'mon!  I go through about 10 refills of filtered water a day at work so if i'm paying for something, it'll be something with flavor. 

[Bewler]

I wasn't too cheap either. I only went to get a glass of it at the bar because I thought it would be a funny after the waiter told me they only sell it by the bottle.

[Dog Walker]

What ARE the servers smoking in those things, anyway?  That has to be the most bizarre example of customer relations on record.

[Adam W]

What ARE the servers smoking in those things, anyway?  That has to be the most bizarre example of customer relations on record.

LOL!

[joshuataylor]

I wonder what the more democratic approach to solving this problem would be? Imagine you went to Yamas and were confronted with a two hour wait. Would you wait? Would you leave and never go back? If you planned to spend $100 on food, drinks, and hookah, and could possibly become a regular diner there, should you be forced to kowtow to the whims of listless adolescents too young to order alcohol and too southern to eat middle-eastern food, who only congregate in this restaurant to practice their newfound taboo of legal public smoking? Should there be imposed time limits on an activity that is, in it's very nature, a prolonged and relaxed experience? Should there be a minimum charge, like a strip club? A cover fee, like a night club? Reserved tables? An age restriction? I've always been fascinated by this particular societal dining dilemma.

[Tacachale]

This is something I've only ever noticed at hookah places. I assume the reason is what that manager told me - they don't want big parties sharing one $10 hookah and taking up a table without ordering anything else all night. I highly doubt it's about wait times, and there are other ways to handle the money issue. In fact a lot of places just require every guest to order something if they're having a hookah. I know the Casbah does, or did. The benefit of that approach is you're getting money out of the under-21 crowd without nickel and diming paying customers over something that's free at every other restaurant and bar in the city.