Moxie Restaurant coming to St. Johns Town Center

[spuwho]

Lets just say if Moxie was opening in Riverside or Springfield it might get a different reaction on MJ.

Mellow Mushroom has gotten a lot of coverage on MJ for taking over an old gas station.

I think that is where people see a difference.

Urbanists don't dig SJTC.  (unless they put in a streetcar) Then it would pass the sniff test.

[I-10east]

In reviewing the posts mentioning the town center.  It is inevitably you and 1-10 that make disparaging comments about the town center.  They are usually completely unwarranted, and apparently meant to convey the impression that urbanism is also anti st john's center.

This is ridiculous.

The is probably the most 'ridiculous' post that I have ever read on MJ. So sarcastic whiny put down remarks like "Great another restaurant at the SJTC" is expressing urbanism? Really?

[spuwho]

Lets just say if Moxie was opening in Riverside or Springfield it might get a different reaction on MJ.

Mellow Mushroom has gotten a lot of coverage on MJ for taking over an old gas station.

I think that is where people see a difference.

Urbanists don't dig SJTC.  (unless they put in a streetcar) Then it would pass the sniff test.

spuwho.

In reviewing the posts mentioning the town center.  It is inevitably you and 1-10 that make disparaging comments about the town center.  They are usually completely unwarranted, and apparently meant to convey the impression that urbanism is also anti st john's center.

This is ridiculous.

It is not mellow mushroom that is getting the coverage btw.  It is the attempt to deny the commercial property owners the right to use their own properties for legal commercial purposes.

There isnt any issue with neighbors attempting to prevent Moxie from opening on the grounds that Moxie will cause cancer, prostitution or some other such nonsense is there?

Actually Stephen, I enjoy STJC immensely and use it often, and while I make a sarcastic remark or two about it, (like teasing Lake on stopping at MickeyD's for free coffee) I don't rank on it constantly. I was actually quite excited when Nordstrom made the announcement. What is good for SJTC is good for Jacksonville.

I think Mellow Mushroom deserves to go into Riverside and think the kooks in WLA are offbase (just as you do). And I will frequent the locale when it is finished (and they will get the approvals). Someone with some money and attorney does not make them right. But would MJ do a front page spread and live blogs of Moxie getting a permit? Probably not. That was what I was contrasting.

I don't even know what I-10 says on MJ, so I couldn't say one way or the other. I think you might be confusing me with someone else.

[thelakelander]

Is this a large chain? 

Good question. I've been scouring all over the web trying to find info on this restaurant. I'll be shocked if it's a large chain. Large chain restaurants are known for their synonymous easy to access websites. Hey Lake, where did you get the Moxie info from? 

www.ldionline.com and http://dodgeprojects.construction.com/Food-Beverage-Service_stcVVproductId150970152VVviewprod.htm

I was looking for the plans on the State Street McDonald's/Family Dollar project and noticed that this project was posted.

[thelakelander]

Lets just say if Moxie was opening in Riverside or Springfield it might get a different reaction on MJ.

Mellow Mushroom has gotten a lot of coverage on MJ for taking over an old gas station.

I think that is where people see a difference.

Urbanists don't dig SJTC.  (unless they put in a streetcar) Then it would pass the sniff test.

I've been thinking about adding a St. Johns Town Center area construction update to the mix here.  After all, that area is an "Edge City" and there are a lot of things going on out there.

"Edge city" is an American term for a concentration of business, shopping, and entertainment outside a traditional urban area in what had recently been a residential suburb or semi-rural community. The term was popularized in the 1991 book Edge City: Life on the New Frontier by Joel Garreau, who established its current meaning while working as a reporter for the Washington Post. Garreau argues that the edge city has become the standard form of urban growth worldwide, representing a 20th-century urban form unlike that of the 19th-century central downtown. Other terms for the areas include suburban activity centers, megacenters, and suburban business districts.

Garreau established five rules for a place to be considered an edge city:

1. It must have more than five million square feet (465,000 m²) of office space. Such an area can accommodate between 20,000 and 50,000 office workers - as many as some traditional downtowns.

2. It must have more than 600,000 square feet (56,000 m²) of retail space, the size of a medium shopping mall. This ensures that the edge city is a center of recreation and commerce as well as of office work.

3. It must be characterized by more jobs than bedrooms.

4. It must be perceived by the population as one place.

5. It must have had no urban characteristics 30 years earlier.

Most edge cities develop at or near existing or planned freeway intersections, and are especially likely to develop near major airports. They rarely include heavy industry. They often are not separate legal entities but are governed as part of surrounding counties (this is more often the case in the East than in the Midwest, South, or West). They are numerousâ€"almost 200 in the United States, compared to 45 downtowns of comparable sizeâ€"and are large geographically because they are built at automobile scale.

Spatially, edge cities primarily consist of mid-rise office towers (with some skyscrapers) surrounded by massive surface parking lots and meticulously manicured lawns, almost reminiscent of the designs of Le Corbusier. Instead of a traditional street grid, their street networks are hierarchical, consisting of winding parkways (often lacking sidewalks) that feed into arterial roads or freeway ramps. However, edge cities feature job density similar to that of secondary downtowns found in places such as Newark and Pasadena; indeed, Garreau writes that edge cities' development proves that "density is back".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_city

[I-10east]

^^^Thanks Lake for being one of the few reasonable urbanists on MJ.

[thelakelander]

This Moxie in Cleveland sounds like a restaurant that would fit in with the other restaurant types in the Town Center.  Perhaps the owners are trying to expand the concept outside of Cleveland.

http://www.moxietherestaurant.com/

I came across that site as well.  You could be right.

[thelakelander]

But would MJ do a front page spread and live blogs of Moxie getting a permit? Probably not. That was what I was contrasting.

I actually was going to make this a front page topic when I first came across the site plans this morning.  I still may for some of the residential infill projects going up in the area.  The funny thing is, if Moxie's were a large chain and this was their first location in the South, it would be on the front page by now.  I ended up not doing it because it would have required a little more of my time in researching the background behind Moxie's, since it appears this isn't a large well known chain (with easily accessible information).

[thelakelander]

^^^Thanks Lake for being one of the few reasonable urbanists on MJ.

I'm just a realist.  SJTC really doesn't bother me.  I believe it could have been designed better but I view it as typical regional mall (and the design is what our zoning promotes....can't blame the developer, blame the process) and I don't see it as competition to creating a vibrant urban core.  This metropolitan area has over 1.3 million residents.  There's room for all.

[I-10east]

^^^I don't have to call anybody out, they know who they are. Hell, just click on the link that Blizz provided you on the first page. There are tons of unreasonable people that think any restaurant added to the SJTC is an abomination to God. Lake said that "He don't see the SJTC as competition to creating a vibrant urban core". He is one of the few who have that 'reasonable' mentality. Many others think that anything that is built at SJTC, or any suburban area automatically takes away from downtown. I get that alot of people on MJ don't like the SJTC, but why rehash on something (that's good for the economy BTW) negatively like a restaurant opening in the SJTC? I don't care for soccer; You will never see me on a soccer thread repeatedly bashing that sport. I'm so glad that there are people on MJ (like me and others) that are sick and tired of the incessant whining about the SJTC that has been going on eight freaking years now; The SJTC haters done already made their points ad nausem.

[I-10east]

^^^Keep on dodging the proof just like a good politician, which is appropriate with the upcoming elections.

[tufsu1]

Urbanists don't dig SJTC.  (unless they put in a streetcar) Then it would pass the sniff test.

actually, even that wouldn't do it for this urbanist....I have no problem with the stores/restaurants there....its all about design...with the exception of a few pretend-urban blocks, the Town Center area is just a sprawling mess.

[Doctor_K]

As big a fan as I am of the SJTC, and as much as I enjoy living next to it, I have to agree w/ TUFSU1.  It is a bit of a sprawling mess.  And it's not even completely built out yet.

I do wish they'd have been permitted/designed/zoned (whatever) to build vertically some more.  Not unlike Tapestry Park.

Alas. 

There's no place like home!

[thelakelander]

To me, something needs to be done with that JTB/Gate/Town Center Parkway stretch.  It's already bad and it will get worse as more development takes place.

[copperfiend]

To me, something needs to be done with that JTB/Gate/Town Center Parkway stretch.  It's already bad and it will get worse as more development takes place.

I remember seeing plans a few years ago that included removing the light at the intersection with Costco. They would extend the TC road beyond Gate Parkway. It doesn't seem like there is any movement on that right now.