Via the Daily Record: Sleiman pushing for new convention center and moratorium

[dougskiles]

Its ok, but Im really more turned on by setting the forces of progressive architecture and new techniques loose if we are going to be building public buildings downtown. 

Personally I don't want to see another neoclassical or pedestrian structure built in the urban core for at least another fifty years.

I want to be excited, turned on and inspired  by architecture.

And I want to see our tremendous technology and science at play.  This is one of the proposals for the shipyards site isnt it?

+1,000,000

Glad to see you so energized by this project, Mr. Dare!

Save a few naysayers, I think a convention center downtown could be one of those projects that has widespread acceptance and gets the community moving toward a common goal.  It also solves some other problems, like restoring the current convention location back to a functioning train station.

[thelakelander]

MadisonSquare has been around for almost a hundred years and is a financial success and boon to the city.

The Madison Square that is around today opened in 1968.  It replaced Pennsylvania Station, the train station our terminal was modeled after.  The Jacob K. Javtis Convention Center opened in 1986.  It replaced the New York Coliseum, which was built under the planning of Robert Moses in 1956.  The Javtis has 670,000 square feet of exhibition space over two levels. Madison Square Gardens' largest exhibition space is only 36,000 square feet.

[thelakelander]

lol. it looks a bit like a two story home in pensacola.

Its ok, but Im really more turned on by setting the forces of progressive architecture and new techniques loose if we are going to be building public buildings downtown. 

Personally I don't want to see another neoclassical or pedestrian structure built in the urban core for at least another fifty years.

I want to be excited, turned on and inspired  by architecture.

And I want to see our tremendous technology and science at play.  This is one of the proposals for the shipyards site isnt it?

That's on the courthouse site next to the Hyatt.  I believe it was a part of the convention center article covering Sleiman's views.

[thelakelander]

What do you think of this convention center, Lake?

Looks cool from the video.  Can the public get up there? A green roof that would also dub as a public park on top of a new convention center has been mentioned a few times on these discussion boards in the past.

[CityLife]

Schools, parks, and libraries generate little to no revenue, and have significant operations costs.

Convention centers tend not to generate revenue either.  Several end up being big money losers. 

http://www.stltoday.com/business/columns/david-nicklaus/here-s-a-rarity-a-profitable-convention-center/article_c2c7e20b-f305-5048-9ee0-5dc004b3545d.html

You don't invest in them for them to bring in revenue.  You're revenue is made by the spinoff of people staying in hotels, buying gas, shopping locally, dining, etc.

Basically, someone needs to do a detailed alternatives analysis (Cost benefit, financial impact analysis, etc) of adding a new convention site, vs. keeping the PO and weighing all the factors. Without that information, we the public, and politicians can't make an informed decision on whether or not to add a new CC.

I think this has already been done, which is why the courthouse site ended up being selected.

Sorry to rehash this, but I wasn't able to respond yesterday...I know the revenue comes from the visitors..which is why I said  "So in my mind the question is, can the increases in revenue and tourism dollars offset the financing costs?" on the first page of the thread. Sure a new CC may not even break even, but it will likely generate more revenue than the PO and bring in more tourism dollars. Can those increases offset the financing costs? Will the increases in revenue and tourism dollars in relation to what the PO is currently bringing in, make it less of a money pit over the long term? How much new development will a new CC potentially spark? How much will that increase the tax base? What is the value and potential savings of converting the PO back to a transportation hub? If a new CC is not built on the courthouse, what will the property be used for?

I'm sure somebody at the city has done some type of analysis on the courthouse site, but I'd really like to see a complex and professional alternatives analysis of the options. If one has been done, I'd love to see it. Otherwise, we're all speculating based on opinion and conjecture.

[thelakelander]

I'm sure somebody at the city has done some type of analysis on the courthouse site, but I'd really like to see a complex and professional alternatives analysis of the options. If one has been done, I'd love to see it. Otherwise, we're all speculating based on opinion and conjecture.

There was a study done a few years back that evaluated over 11 sites or so. I'm away from the computer but I'll try and dig it up later today.

[Jdog]

Really.  If you look at the location of the Landing and its centrality to the hotels. An add on convention center might be perfectly located there.

Its on the river, it already has a marina, there is an entertainment venue associated with it.  It would require a much smaller skyway spur than any other potential location, and its the anchor of the Laura Street Renovations.

Toney isnt probably going to see a retail center success there for a good ten years anyways, and the Landing Restaurants would be a built in convenience to conventioneers.

Best idea I've heard  in years

[dougskiles]

I love idea of engaging the river in the convention center.  We can make the most of our river dolphins and manatees.  Tourists love that stuff (as do I - it always brings a smile to my face when I see the dolphins out there).

I have no idea how Toney Sleiman would feel about taking out the entire Landing for the convention center.  I didn't get the sense that was what he was proposing.

However, if he gets the same square footage of retail space out of it that he gets in a long term lease (99-years), and gets the dedicated parking that is owed to him, he may be great with it.  I don't think it would be much of a financial loss to see the place closed for 2 years while this is under construction.

I don't know that a skyway extension is even needed if the convention center goes at the current Landing site.  Central Station is only two blocks away.  There would be a few operation challenges with extending it.  Transit systems don't work as well when they diverge at the end of the line.  Then every other train has to go in a different direction.  Most of the skyway passengers would still be going north to FSCJ or Hemming, and so this would create more transfers.

If we really wanted a stop inside the convention center, then it might be best to just have a two-block connector that goes back & forth.  Then increase the frequency of the main north-south route (Kings to FSCJ).  The wait for convention visitors would only be 2-3 minutes (which is nothing in the world of transit).

[thelakelander]

I'm sure somebody at the city has done some type of analysis on the courthouse site, but I'd really like to see a complex and professional alternatives analysis of the options. If one has been done, I'd love to see it. Otherwise, we're all speculating based on opinion and conjecture.

There was a study done a few years back that evaluated over 11 sites or so. I'm away from the computer but I'll try and dig it up later today.

With MetJax no longer in operation, we lost the archives to forum discussions before this site was established.  There were a couple of convention center studies done 5 to 7 years ago.



This was in 2005.  At the time, the Fairgrounds was the highest selection:

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/073005/bus_19375381.shtml

Here's the Executive Summary of the JCCI's Convention Center Study in 2007:

http://www.jcci.org/jcciwebsite/documents/07%20Convention%20Center.pdf

Some other links to old articles on previous studies:

2004
http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/062104/bum_15898072.shtml

2006 -
Two studies to gauge convention appeal $20,000 will be spent to help determine if Jacksonville can support a center larger than the Prime Osborn
http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/121606/bus_6848250.shtml

2006 - Developer (Sleiman) weighs riverfront convention center
http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/081706/met_4470314.shtml

2007 - Prime Osborn, Hyatt lead pack of convention sites
http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/091507/bus_199680846.shtml

2007 - Convention center decision is no decision, yet A task force says a location decision should be punted to the mayor and City Council
http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/102607/bus_212128985.shtml

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/091507/bus_199680846.shtml