Large scale development and Riverside/Avondale

[thelakelander]

Within my first year of Atlanta my pervious Ortega/Avondale "ways" led me to 2 DUIs, my car being towed or booted with $150-300 fine somewhere between 8-12 times, parking tickets on campus and at meters, etc.  Now I haven't been behind the wheel with so much as one drink in about 3 years (cabs, DD, WALK a lot, even the train if I'm with group).

LOL, are you afraid to take MARTA by yourself?  Why?  I've ridden it several times in the past.  It's never seemed threatening to me.

[If_I_Loved_you]

Not being a Riverside resident but an advocate, from the outside looking in, what stands out to me is you have a split population base on what the community is and should strive to be.  It seems you have an older established community that would like to see things a certain way and a younger population base who's values are completely different. Taking pot shots at certain people won't resolve the core issue facing the community.  All that does is piss people off and make them more unwilling to compromise on the issues. 

Ultimately, this entire situation (and politics in general) boils down to the squeaky wheel gets the grease.  One side appears to be well organized and positioned to lobby for their position and the other side doesn't.  Long term, the younger population base will win out as the older population base dies out and becomes less politically influential.  However, if the population base that doesn't agree with the position of RAP and WLA wants more balance, than it will be up to it to organize, lobby and fight with the same passion of the other groups.  This theory isn't Riverside specific.  It really applies to the city in general.

"Long term, the younger population base will win out as the older population base dies out and becomes less politically influential." This really isn't true a lot of the older population that will die off will be replaced by their offspring with the same values and attitudes.

[KEGreene1]

Lakelander is correct.  If you want to fight these groups, you need to show up and voice your opinion.  IMHO - this is a few business owners creating rules (which they themselves do not have to follow) to protect their own business interests, not the interests of the community at large, and hiding behind a name like We Love Avondale. 

[PeeJayEss]

"Long term, the younger population base will win out as the older population base dies out and becomes less politically influential." This really isn't true a lot of the older population that will die off will be replaced by their offspring with the same values and attitudes.

Do you have the exact same values and attitudes as your parents? I don't.

To lake's point, old people just have so much more time to be organizing and squeaking. Young, employed people have much less time on their hands.

[simms3]

Within my first year of Atlanta my pervious Ortega/Avondale "ways" led me to 2 DUIs, my car being towed or booted with $150-300 fine somewhere between 8-12 times, parking tickets on campus and at meters, etc.  Now I haven't been behind the wheel with so much as one drink in about 3 years (cabs, DD, WALK a lot, even the train if I'm with group).

LOL, are you afraid to take MARTA by yourself?  Why?  I've ridden it several times in the past.  It's never seemed threatening to me.

Lake, like many train systems across the country, it's safest to be in a group at night, especially on certain routes.  Have you felt perfectly safe with your fancy luggage and suit on at 11-12 at night after arriving at Hartsfield?  Have you left friends at a bar in Decatur early for bed, but still 10-11 at night?  That's a pleasant ride in your fancy white collar/white boy clothes on an East-west line with a transfer at 5 Points Station, looking nice and ripe for the picking.  Come on...anyone with common sense knows to use common sense on the trains.  I find MARTA in general sketchier than some other systems...not as many "choice riders" like myself as the system wasn't built for us so much as for people either commuting in for work 9-5 or for serving the poorest parts of the city.

Also...I was beat up very badly on a platform once, at about midnight, when I was by myself with my bar clothes on waiting to take a train to meet people downtown just 4 stops down.  Broken nose, broken cheekbone, stitches for my eye.  There was no reason for the attack, but I was the only "young professional" down there amongst a bunch of thugs and tired blue collar workers not giving a shit and used to the scene (actually was in college at the time...the station was in Midtown, not the ghetto).  One guy was arrested later and I became another statistic buried by MARTA.

[If_I_Loved_you]

"Long term, the younger population base will win out as the older population base dies out and becomes less politically influential." This really isn't true a lot of the older population that will die off will be replaced by their offspring with the same values and attitudes.

Do you have the exact same values and attitudes as your parents? I don't.

To lake's point, old people just have so much more time to be organizing and squeaking. Young, employed people have much less time on their hands.

The core values of my Parents will always be with me. And the argument that since younger people are working is poppycock!

[simms3]

Not being a Riverside resident but an advocate, from the outside looking in, what stands out to me is you have a split population base on what the community is and should strive to be.  It seems you have an older established community that would like to see things a certain way and a younger population base who's values are completely different. Taking pot shots at certain people won't resolve the core issue facing the community.  All that does is piss people off and make them more unwilling to compromise on the issues. 

Ultimately, this entire situation (and politics in general) boils down to the squeaky wheel gets the grease.  One side appears to be well organized and positioned to lobby for their position and the other side doesn't.  Long term, the younger population base will win out as the older population base dies out and becomes less politically influential.  However, if the population base that doesn't agree with the position of RAP and WLA wants more balance, than it will be up to it to organize, lobby and fight with the same passion of the other groups.  This theory isn't Riverside specific.  It really applies to the city in general.

"Long term, the younger population base will win out as the older population base dies out and becomes less politically influential." This really isn't true a lot of the older population that will die off will be replaced by their offspring with the same values and attitudes.

I'd agree largely.  A lot of the young folks who were tired of the Jacksonville scene left for other places, though many return when they want to start families, etc and their parents' tired old values then show up for the first time in their offspring.  Jacksonville needs to shake its reputation as THE place to marry and have kids and slow down; it snuffs out the young and adventurous who aren't looking for peace and quiet and conservative values their wholes lives, though I'd agree with you that many kids in Jacksonville grow up WITH their parents' values, never straying.  I would be a totally different person if I had stayed in Jax...kids and their parents in that area share pretty much all the same opinions and values.  Eeek

[JeffreyS]

Please this is just that a few businesses do not want competition and a group pretending to be a preservation group but wanting to be an Oakleaf HOA. Dreams of Julington sweetening their nights. Oh you lovely parking lots and express lanes.

Sorry Lake I know you want us to play nice but you are debating a group who know they are wrong but do not care.

[If_I_Loved_you]

Please this is just that a few businesses do not want competition and a group pretending to be a preservation group but wanting to be an Oakleaf HOA. Dreams of Julington sweetening their nights. Oh you lovely parking lots and express lanes.

Sorry Lake I know you want us to play nice but you are debating a group who know they are wrong but do not care.

"debating a group who know they are wrong but do not care" and who made you God?

[thelakelander]

Within my first year of Atlanta my pervious Ortega/Avondale "ways" led me to 2 DUIs, my car being towed or booted with $150-300 fine somewhere between 8-12 times, parking tickets on campus and at meters, etc.  Now I haven't been behind the wheel with so much as one drink in about 3 years (cabs, DD, WALK a lot, even the train if I'm with group).

LOL, are you afraid to take MARTA by yourself?  Why?  I've ridden it several times in the past.  It's never seemed threatening to me.

Lake, like many train systems across the country, it's safest to be in a group at night, especially on certain routes.  Have you felt perfectly safe with your fancy luggage and suit on at 11-12 at night after arriving at Hartsfield?  Have you left friends at a bar in Decatur early for bed, but still 10-11 at night?  That's a pleasant ride in your fancy white collar/white boy clothes on an East-west line with a transfer at 5 Points Station, looking nice and ripe for the picking.  Come on...anyone with common sense knows to use common sense on the trains.  I find MARTA in general sketchier than some other systems...not as many "choice riders" like myself as the system wasn't built for us so much as for people either commuting in for work 9-5 or for serving the poorest parts of the city.

Also...I was beat up very badly on a platform once, at about midnight, when I was by myself with my bar clothes on waiting to take a train to meet people downtown just 4 stops down.  Broken nose, broken cheekbone, stitches for my eye.  There was no reason for the attack, but I was the only "young professional" down there amongst a bunch of thugs and tired blue collar workers not giving a shit and used to the scene (actually was in college at the time...the station was in Midtown, not the ghetto).  One guy was arrested later and I became another statistic buried by MARTA.

I was talking about the using the train in general (no specific time period).  I grew up in the hood and I'm street savvy.  Many of the situations you describe above  would make you a target for crime in several situations at night, not just public transit.  Nevertheless, unless you're totally looking out of place in a neighborhood you're not familiar with, you should be perfectly fine on MARTA and most of the country's public transportation systems.

[Captain Zissou]

Please this is just that a few businesses do not want competition and a group pretending to be a preservation group but wanting to be an Oakleaf HOA. Dreams of Julington sweetening their nights. Oh you lovely parking lots and express lanes.

Sorry Lake I know you want us to play nice but you are debating a group who know they are wrong but do not care.

"debating a group who know they are wrong but do not care" and who made you God?

You don't need to be God to know that WLA has no idea what they are talking about and that most of their points are lies.  You just have to fact check their flyers for about 5 minutes.

[thelakelander]

"Long term, the younger population base will win out as the older population base dies out and becomes less politically influential." This really isn't true a lot of the older population that will die off will be replaced by their offspring with the same values and attitudes.

Do you have the exact same values and attitudes as your parents? I don't.

To lake's point, old people just have so much more time to be organizing and squeaking. Young, employed people have much less time on their hands.

The core values of my Parents will always be with me.

My parent's core values will always be with me but I'm completely opposite in terms of urban environment.  My parents prefer small town suburban living.  I don't and I'm 35 with two kids, ages 10 and 8.  I seriously don't believe I will ever value suburban over urban living.

And the argument that since younger people are working is poppycock!

Definitely agree here.  If you don't like the way things are being done in your community, you have to engage yourself into the process to make change or move to someplace that already has the environment you desire.  Age doesn't matter.

[simms3]

Within my first year of Atlanta my pervious Ortega/Avondale "ways" led me to 2 DUIs, my car being towed or booted with $150-300 fine somewhere between 8-12 times, parking tickets on campus and at meters, etc.  Now I haven't been behind the wheel with so much as one drink in about 3 years (cabs, DD, WALK a lot, even the train if I'm with group).

LOL, are you afraid to take MARTA by yourself?  Why?  I've ridden it several times in the past.  It's never seemed threatening to me.

Lake, like many train systems across the country, it's safest to be in a group at night, especially on certain routes.  Have you felt perfectly safe with your fancy luggage and suit on at 11-12 at night after arriving at Hartsfield?  Have you left friends at a bar in Decatur early for bed, but still 10-11 at night?  That's a pleasant ride in your fancy white collar/white boy clothes on an East-west line with a transfer at 5 Points Station, looking nice and ripe for the picking.  Come on...anyone with common sense knows to use common sense on the trains.  I find MARTA in general sketchier than some other systems...not as many "choice riders" like myself as the system wasn't built for us so much as for people either commuting in for work 9-5 or for serving the poorest parts of the city.

Also...I was beat up very badly on a platform once, at about midnight, when I was by myself with my bar clothes on waiting to take a train to meet people downtown just 4 stops down.  Broken nose, broken cheekbone, stitches for my eye.  There was no reason for the attack, but I was the only "young professional" down there amongst a bunch of thugs and tired blue collar workers not giving a shit and used to the scene (actually was in college at the time...the station was in Midtown, not the ghetto).  One guy was arrested later and I became another statistic buried by MARTA.

I was talking about the using the train in general (no specific time period).  I grew up in the hood and I'm street savvy.  Many of the situations you describe above  would make you a target for crime in several situations at night, not just public transit.  Nevertheless, unless you're totally looking out of place in a neighborhood you're not familiar with, you should be perfectly fine on MARTA and most of the country's public transportation systems.

we're so off topic but whatev...I grew up "privileged" and am blonde/blue eyed, totally innocent looking no matter how hard I try to dress down or appear however down with the 99% (which I AM a part of living humbly in my studio LoL).  I'm a target, yes, so I am very careful in unfamiliar territory, on public transit usually wherever at night, etc.  I have developed good street smarts, but it took me a few years living on my own outside of Ortega/Jacksonville and it wasn't given to me naturally.  My street smarts keep me off most trains by myself late at night unless I'm not looking the easy target I normally am...cabs were invented for a reason And are considered a means of transit for many people in many cities, both for leaving bars and getting to work.

[Captain Zissou]

And the argument that since younger people are working is poppycock!

Definitely agree here.  If you don't like the way things are being done in your community, you have to engage yourself into the process to make change or move to someplace that already has the environment you desire.  Age doesn't matter.

Well, one of the ways for young people to get involved is RAP180, but I don't see that helping here..... Whatever happened to HelpSaveAvondale....?  Was that serious or just a logo and a gmail address?  Those two things do not constitute an activist group.

[thelakelander]

Sorry Lake I know you want us to play nice but you are debating a group who know they are wrong but do not care.

All I'm saying is simply complaining online or writing a few letters to city hall won't be effective to win your position if your opposition is doing more lobbying at actual meetings and behind closed doors.  Getting your way is always best when you can make your position seem more larger and influential than it may actually be.  If you want to be as impactful as RAP and WLA in this particular situation just copy the process they are taking while promoting your position.