Inside the Ford Motor Company Assembly Plant

[hanjin1]

i thought they wanted to move the cruise ship terminal to mayport because the newer cruise ships were too big for the bridges we have. i guess if it were at the ford plant we could have the smaller ones still come through. either way i would love to see something done with those buildings

[Sportmotor]

i thought they wanted to move the cruise ship terminal to mayport because the newer cruise ships were too big for the bridges we have. i guess if it were at the ford plant we could have the smaller ones still come through. either way i would love to see something done with those buildings

Same here, like an implosion

[Ocklawaha]

There is one in Richmond California .

Thank's Billy, yes, my list was just the group of new or expanded plants that were announced on my birthday. The Richmond plant built it's last FORD in 1953 and shut it's doors in 1956. It was subject of a recent MJ article on how they are bringing back "OUR" (look-alike) FORD plant:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-mar-ford-assembly-plant-comes-back-to-life

Hope you enjoy it.

As for you Sportmotor, sure we'll blow it up, hell you can even light the fuse provided you are standing inside of the plant when you do! 


OCKLAWAHA

[Sportmotor]

Pffft you wish you could be so lucky for that to happen 

[thelakelander]

You can't read the entire article unless you have a subscription to the Jax Biz Journal but this idea is DOA due to the height of the Dames Point Bridge.

Jaxport nixes cruise terminal at old Ford plant

A class of design students and the owner of the former Ford assembly plant at the base of the Mathews Bridge think the site would be a good place for a cruise ship terminal, but the Jacksonville Port Authority does not agree.

http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2010/04/19/story11.html

[CS Foltz]

Like JPA really knows what they are doing! Just like anything else in Jacksonville no vision! You go in on low tide and clear the bridge! Jacksonville would not get a first tier ship anyway, got no proven record of use or cruisers! That means smaller and so freaking what..............small enough to  go under the Dames Point Bridge at low tide and then to the base of the Mathews to the new "Cruise Terminal"! Oops...Vescor does not own the old Ford assembly plant so they had better hurry!

[stjr]

You can't read the entire article unless you have a subscription to the Jax Biz Journal but this idea is DOA due to the height of the Dames Point Bridge.

City leaders were told this would happen one day if they built the Dames Point Bridge at its current height but they were so anxious to line the pockets of land developers on the Northside, that they rammed the bridge through on a schedule and at a cost within their budget rather than do it right and build it higher as requested by the Jacksonville Shipyards and others at the time.

The same thinking in Jax is what gets us such "winning" and poorly planned projects as the Courthouse fiasco, unnecessary roads like 9B and the Outer Beltway over commuter rail and streetcars, and the user-less and useless $ky-high-way.  All about short term gains for the vested interests over the long term interests of our community at large.  Until this way of thinking changes, Jax will always perform below its true potential.

[CS Foltz]

stjr........until this Administration and all of their people running things are no longer in office, it won't happen! We have Idiots running things that don't know squat about the right way to get things down and are just interested in lining their pockets or their buddies pockets! No vision, no plan and no funding to get there! Is it 2011 yet...........maybe we can start a recall now?

[tufsu1]

The same thinking in Jax is what gets us such "winning" and poorly planned projects as the Courthouse fiasco, unnecessary roads like 9B and the Outer Beltway over commuter rail and streetcars, and the user-less and useless $ky-high-way.  

Not saying I disagree with you, but remember when some people said the Dames Point Bridge and JTB were unnecessary?

Truth is that few people could have predicted 20 years ago the explosion in cruising....and that there would be ships that held over 5,000 people....plus, Jax. wasn't in the cruise business at the time....so imagine the citizen outcry of "wasteful spending" if there was extra cost for making the bridge higher.

[stjr]

Not saying I disagree with you, but remember when some people said the Dames Point Bridge and JTB were unnecessary?

Truth is that few people could have predicted 20 years ago the explosion in cruising....and that there would be ships that held over 5,000 people....plus, Jax. wasn't in the cruise business at the time....so imagine the citizen outcry of "wasteful spending" if there was extra cost for making the bridge higher.

Aaaahh....Tufsu, but people did say the ENTIRE bridge was a waste of money at the time since it was supposed to carry a rather expensive toll that would have killed most traffic on it.  Even with the switch to no tolls, the bridge went years with little traffic as developers found out their imagined "pot of gold" wasn't so easy to cash in on as they thought.

In fact, since the bridge couldn't support its costs with tolls, they had to bring the cost of the bridge down since it was going to be free.  To do this, they whacked down the height, port and shipyards be damned.  In this town, ROADS RULE over trains, ships, and everything else.

Predicting an explosion in cruising wasn't necessary.  There were staunch advocates from the port and maritime interests to raise the bridge for existing freight and shipyard business.  Further, Jax has always coveted cruise ships and this wasn't unimagined at the time either.  Even then, there was a noticeable trend toward ever larger ships of all kinds and concerns about accommodating such WERE vociferously brought up.  The real truth is developers designed the bridge and Jax lived for the day, not the future, as is so often done here, and now the future is here and we are paying, once again, for the GOB network and our shortsightedness.

[tufsu1]

so you admit that people in the 80's thought the Dames Point bridge was a "waste of money"....wonder what a poll of the community would reveal now?

For many people, things expected to be needed in the future seem to be a waste of money in the present.

So, back to polling....how many people in Jacksonville feel that rail transit is something we need in the future and are willing to spend money for it today....my guess is less than 25%....heck, I'd bet that less than half of the community thinks we'll ever need rail transit in Jax.

[stjr]

so you admit that people in the 80's thought the Dames Point bridge was a "waste of money"....wonder what a poll of the community would reveal now?

IT WAS A WASTE OF MONEY Tufsu ... at the time.

Why?
-It wasn't connected to the full 9A/I-295 loop for another 20 years or so.
-There was no traffic on it for over a decade which proves it wasn't needed at the time (and that is WITHOUT tolls).
-It was originally proposed with a high toll which would have resulted in even less traffic than what went over it for free, showing it was even more useless at the time.
-The only ones who pushed for it were developers, not the general population.  In fact, if you asked Arlington residents at the time, they would have preferred to spend the money replacing or adding to the Matthews Bridge (they might still say the same thing today!).
-We spent hundreds of millions to build a permanent limitation on our port, one of our largest economic engines, and probably a lot more valuable to the community than the Dames Point Bridge.

Bottom line, at a minimum, Dames Point was built a good 15 to 20 years before its time.  Given other pressing priorities in the community, that's not a "business like" way to do projects.  No business would do a major capital project that far in advance.  And, as always, given LIMITED resources, was this the best use of our taxpayer money versus other projects?  This is the question that seems to never be factored into decisions in this City regarding road building and other transportation projects.

[tufsu1]

Bottom line, at a minimum, Dames Point was built a good 15 to 20 years before its time.

got to disagree with you there....construction on the bridge started in 1985 and it opened in 1989...and based on the T-U article from last year, it cost $117 million then...or $436 million today (calculate that inflation factor!)

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-03-10/story/dames_point_bridge_reaches_20-year_mark

Also, with reduced traffic all over due to high gas prices more than 66,000 cars used the bridge every day in 2008....so I highly doubt it was built 15-20 years before its time.

[stjr]

Bottom line, at a minimum, Dames Point was built a good 15 to 20 years before its time.

Also, with reduced traffic all over due to high gas prices more than 66,000 cars used the bridge every day in 2008....so I highly doubt it was built 15-20 years before its time.

Extending 9A from the bridge to I-95 and ultimately to I-295 is what has enabled traffic to climb on Dames Point.  Before that, it was basically a bridge to feed traffic to Regency Square.  (How ironic that 9A may actually be helping to fuel Regency Square's demise as people speed by it to the Avenues and SJTC.)  Now it's growing due to the urban sprawl it's enabled in the swamps and forests of the Northside.  Let's see: 2008 minus 1989 = 19 years.  That is well within the 15 to 20 year range I suggested.

But, once again, Tufsu, you digress.  The real issue is would we chose to spend $436 million (or 500+ million or more if we built it to the proper height?) then, or now, for this bridge versus countless other options such as a new Mathews Bridge, mass transit light and heavy rail, etc. ?  Now, maybe, maybe not.  But, in 1989, I don't think this was the best choice by a long shot.

[CS Foltz]

stju...............I am with you on this one! This was not the best choice in 1989 by any means! Just one more dollar in the GOB network pockets and once again the public get hung out to dry!