Construction on SR 9B Continues to Advance

[thelakelander]

Yes, construction of 9A did open thousands of acres of virgin land for more development.  It's the same land development strategy we've been employing since the 1950s.  One day, it will be nice for us to truly ponder if the land development generates enough revenue to the public coffers to cover itself.  On the surface, one would believe if it did, we'd have a budget surplus like Portland does right now.

[Ocklawaha]

Portland has one huge natural advantage that might be responsible for it's wise choices. It's boxed in by some VERY high mountains, the Cascades and the Coast Range including Mount Hood. The city can't really sprawl without going completely vertical. This tends to force development into dense corridors, similar to those in Pittsburgh.

Randall O'Toole and the fools at Heritage Foundation claim that the city would have benefited even more from more highways, but like Jacksonville, a city built on streetcar and interurbans, that goes back to it's roots, is wise indeed. Portland proved it!

[tufsu1]

Here's a great article from the Orlando Sentinel on transportation spending

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-17/news/os-scott-maxwell-transportation-costs-071812-20120717_1_sunrail-roads-rail-lines

[thelakelander]

Portland has one huge natural advantage that might be responsible for it's wise choices. It's boxed in by some VERY high mountains, the Cascades and the Coast Range including Mount Hood. The city can't really sprawl without going completely vertical. This tends to force development into dense corridors, similar to those in Pittsburgh.

Randall O'Toole and the fools at Heritage Foundation claim that the city would have benefited even more from more highways, but like Jacksonville, a city built on streetcar and interurbans, that goes back to it's roots, is wise indeed. Portland proved it!

What's Oklahoma City's excuse for their budget surplus?

Oklahoma City leaders are deciding how to spend an extra $1.3 million in the city’s budget.

At the top of its list, City Council is considering adding city bus routes on Sundays, hiring additional police officers and funding more street repairs. City Council is also thinking about doing nothing with the money at this time, and saving it instead.

http://www.koco.com/news/oklahomanews/okc/City-leaders-undecided-on-how-to-spend-budget-surplus/-/11777584/15181364/-/s65jdlz/-/index.html

[Ocklawaha]

OIL. Anybody can stick a pipe in the ground and get oil, water, on the other hand, is harder to find, LOL. When oil prices soar, OKC enjoys some of the richest tax revenue in the country, when they fall, the city dies.

The MAPS projects are certainly another reason for the boom. We did Laura Street, OKC did all of downtown OKC. They have been investing in themselves since I was on a surrounding town council. The people have passed the tax increases similar to 'Better Jacksonville' but with the exception of a reroute of I-40 through downtown, which took out any useful yard space at OKC Union Station, they've spent that money on downtown things.

OKC has a horrible transit system (ranked a fair distance below JTA) and a network of gridded FREEways and turnpikes that would make Los Angles blush. Their transit ridership fell by 95% when they took out he streetcars and interurbans and it never recovered. Today they are again investing in Streetcars as a development tool. 'OKC JAGUARS?' Let's just say it wouldn't surprise me - OKC is on a roll.

[CityLife]

Portland's sprawl is controlled through an urban growth boundary. Fat chance that would ever be allowed in Jax...

[cline]

I also wonder what is going on at the Deep Forest Airport, a state-of-the-art facility, that looks like it is expanding west of the current runway. Just wondering out loud if this plays any small part in the grand scheme. This airport is already home to a commercial jet charter airline.

Not sure about "state of the art".  I'm pretty sure it is basically Hodges personal landing strip- that's about it.  The same Hodges that made gobs of cash off of highway projects to open up his land (i.e. JTB).

[subro]

I don't think that the road is needed but if they are going to build it, why wouldn't they just make it three lanes in each direction so that they don't have to go back and expand it 5 years from now like they did with JTB?

[L.P. Hovercraft]

I don't think that the road is needed but if they are going to build it, why wouldn't they just make it three lanes in each direction so that they don't have to go back and expand it 5 years from now like they did with JTB?

Built in obsolescence is a great American business tradition--why do it right the first time when you can just tear it down and rebuild it again in a few years and get paid double to do so?

[Gators312]

Didn't Rivertown amend their plans to ensure a more Southerly crossing (Shands Bridge) for the Outer Beltway?

The chatter I heard was they changed phases in which they were going to build, starting farthest North to cause the ROW acquisition for the more Northerly choices such as PoPo Point to Fleming Island to be unfeasible by the time they had to make a decision. 

I had given up hope that there would be a more reasonable bridge crossing to ease the traffic on the Buckman/295....Are you trying to give me false hope Ock??

[tufsu1]

Didn't Rivertown amend their plans to ensure a more Southerly crossing (Shands Bridge) for the Outer Beltway?

The chatter I heard was they changed phases in which they were going to build, starting farthest North to cause the ROW acquisition for the more Northerly choices such as PoPo Point to Fleming Island to be unfeasible by the time they had to make a decision. 

I had given up hope that there would be a more reasonable bridge crossing to ease the traffic on the Buckman/295....Are you trying to give me false hope Ock??

Correct

[Ocklawaha]

Portland's sprawl is controlled through an urban growth boundary. Fat chance that would ever be allowed in Jax...

Yeah, I lived there, well actually in Boring and Sandy, just east of town. 'Boundary' or no boundary, they are not going to build houses over the cliffs and into the narrow Columbia Gorge, or east up to the rare air 'timberline' on Mount Hood, or west in the rugged Coast Range featured on TV's logging shows. The 'Boundary' might help for sprawl southward, past the falls of the Willamette River and through the narrows into the valley toward Salem. But they'd have to annex Oregon City and I don't think that would ever fly. Mother Nature has pretty much done all of the work for the urbanists before they invented the 'Urban Boundary.'

I also wonder what is going on at the Deep Forest Airport, a state-of-the-art facility, that looks like it is expanding west of the current runway. Just wondering out loud if this plays any small part in the grand scheme. This airport is already home to a commercial jet charter airline.

Not sure about "state of the art".  I'm pretty sure it is basically Hodges personal landing strip- that's about it.  The same Hodges that made gobs of cash off of highway projects to open up his land (i.e. JTB).

Deep Forest Airport is actually a  commercial aviation airport with a charter airline operating out of it with two jets. While the facilities are small, they are indeed state-of-the-art with a 6,500 foot, LIGHTED, 60 foot wide, runway. This is certainly not farmer Jones grass strip!

Didn't Rivertown amend their plans to ensure a more Southerly crossing (Shands Bridge) for the Outer Beltway?

The chatter I heard was they changed phases in which they were going to build, starting farthest North to cause the ROW acquisition for the more Northerly choices such as PoPo Point to Fleming Island to be unfeasible by the time they had to make a decision. 

I had given up hope that there would be a more reasonable bridge crossing to ease the traffic on the Buckman/295....Are you trying to give me false hope Ock??

No. Just coaching from the cheap seats and making all the damn noise I can. There is still plenty of space through the old Naval Air Station at Switzerland, around Greenbriar, which pretty much lines up with the Parkway on Flemming Island. If the FREEway aspect was to quit at the St. Johns Parkway, it's conceivable that a cheaper solution might be 4 laneing of Greenbriar and a crossing to the Parkway area. Just saying'.

[thelakelander]

Lexington, KY, who also has an urban development boundary has a budget surplus as well.

http://www.estormwater.com/lexington-mayor-proposes-55-million-storm-water-projects

San Diego has a surplus as well....

The revised budget's new-found $12 million, largely due to increased room tax proceeds and healthier legal and disability fund balances, will be plowed into core services such as:

More police officers and fire fighters.

More street upgrades and infrastructure repairs.

Longer library hours.

Even greater support for arts and culture

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/12M-Surplus-in-Revised-City-Budget-153329155.html

Other random cities with budget surpluses include Minneapolis, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Richmond and Savannah.  It's a cool problem to have.  Will the construction of 9B lead us in that direction?

[CityLife]

Ock, Portland's Urban Growth Boundary is inside of those areas you mentioned and is widely cited as one of the most successful examples of limiting sprawl in America. I'm going to side with the experts here....

[tufsu1]

Other random cities with budget surpluses include Minneapolis, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Richmond and Savannah.  It's a cool problem to have.  Will the construction of 9B lead us in that direction?

of course it will...just think of all that new residential, commercial, and office space that can be developed alongside it...all in Duval County...woo hoo!