Mars One - Colonization of Mars

[Jason]

Human settlement of Mars in 2023


Mars One will establish the first human settlement on Mars in 2023. A habitable settlement will be waiting for the settlers when they land. The settlement will support them while they live and work on Mars the rest of their lives. Every two years after 2023 an additional crew will arrive, such that there is a real living, growing community on Mars. Mars One has created a technical plan for this mission that is as simple as possible. For every component of the mission we have identified at least one potential supplier. Mars One invites you to join us in this next giant leap for mankind!

http://mars-one.com/en/



Looks very interesting and seems to be fairly organized and supported.

[If_I_Loved_you]

Human settlement of Mars in 2023


Mars One will establish the first human settlement on Mars in 2023. A habitable settlement will be waiting for the settlers when they land. The settlement will support them while they live and work on Mars the rest of their lives. Every two years after 2023 an additional crew will arrive, such that there is a real living, growing community on Mars. Mars One has created a technical plan for this mission that is as simple as possible. For every component of the mission we have identified at least one potential supplier. Mars One invites you to join us in this next giant leap for mankind!

http://mars-one.com/en/



Looks very interesting and seems to be fairly organized and supported.

(an additional crew will arrive) No they won't have you seen the movie MOON with Sam Rockwell?

[David]

Very cool. The funding will definitely be the biggest hurdle. 6 billion to send the first 4 humans to Mars. And they're just now setting out for sponsors.

There's so many questions that come to mind. I'm skimming through the FAQs but they only offer "we're researching it it" type answers.

What kind of technology do we have for life support in such a harsh environment? How far along is it? Terra-forming, harvesting local resources. Protection from those Martian dust storms and radiation etc. Yeah, lots of questions are coming to mind.

This will be interesting to follow. I hope it gains some traction.

[Jason]

The most interesting part of the proposal is that they are secure of the fact that this will have to be a one way trip.  Those 4 astronauts will have to be VERY compatible to keep them from killing eachother.  I'd also wonder about the implications of a female getting pregnant on Mars (unless they're Monks & Nuns).     Would be cool to have claim to being the first true "Martian".

[WmNussbaum]

I've seen some bovine excrement in my time, but this just about takes the cake.

[David]

There's been a few studies about how zero or low gravity affects the growth of an animal fetus.

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=702

but I haven't found anything about them actually conceiving in a low gravity environment, more research is needed.

But yes, those 4 people would REALLY have to like each other. It seems like the 7 month transit alone would drive everyone on board insane.

Plus, you'd have to make sure everyone was cool with going vegan. I doubt there would be any meat for those first 4 pioneers. Just greenhouse food and even that would be scarce. Unless you can freeze a hamburger for that long. Ok, those are  just MY concerns If i were to go. Either way, interesting stuff.

[ronchamblin]

Interesting project.  Expensive. The most gain will be knowledge of the Martian environment, and experience with the technology to travel, and live there. .......... stuff that will be necessary when we have to leave the earth upon our distruction of it. We must eventually find another planet to destroy.  It's kinda fun destroying planets though....... seeing them struggle... watching them become wounded.... and out of balance.  Love it. 

The problem with Mars of course is that there is probably not much to destroy there.  It's already sorta dead.  We need  to find a nice green planet, with plenty of clean water, and creatures all around.  Then we can trash the hell out of it.  Fun. Fun. Fun.   

[WmNussbaum]

It's not interesting stuff. It's stupid stuff. Consider:

Assume the pioneers are fairly old - say 35. That means a life expectancy under rigorous conditions of maybe 25 years - guessing. Who would want to live in a cocoon eating dehydrated food for that long? How much water would they need for that long considering that Mars has no atmosphere from which water could be extracted by any sufficient means known today. If one could get by on as little as 1 gallon a day, that means for one person 1 x 365 x 25 or 9,125 gallons for the 25 years. And for the 4 folks that adds up to 36,500 gallons. A gallon of water weighs a bit over 8 pounds, so you're talking about 146  tons of water at take off. (Listen up Zephyrhills!)  More if someone wants to bathe in some fashion a couple of times each decade.

Speaking of excrement as I did in post #1, what do you do with 25 years worth of shit? Make a big pile far from camp? In zero atmosphere how long would it take that shit to disappear? Turn urine into water somehow? Okay, maybe, but at 1 gallon of water a day, how much urine is that going to produce? Well maybe we could up it to 2 gallons a day. Oops, that means 292 tons of water at take off.

Who would front all the money considering an anticipated 0.00% return on the investment? Would I invest $1,000.00 in the hope of getting back ten-fold by the time I'm 200+ years old. Hmmmmm. Let me think. Okay, I've thought. No!

Summing up: I just don't think so - not with today's technology as advanced as [we think] it is. But it's great fun to think up reasons why it won't work.  Oh one more: What would its area code and ZIP code be?

[WmNussbaum]

Stephen, I'm a lawyer not a developer, and I have a few bucks to bet that 2023 won't see a single person on Mars - certainly not on a permanent basis. Okay, suppose Phobos has frozen water on it. How you gonna get it from one place to another in sufficient quantities to support those on the planet? One day it'll be doable. Eleven years from now? NFW. Kennedy challenged us in his '63 inaugural address to put a man on the moon and bring him back safely before the end of the decade. It was done in six years. I just don't remotely believe that in twice that time we can even minimally colonize a heavenly body so much further off. More importantly, the money should not be spent to try that now.

We have a few billion years left before the sun turns into a red giant and consumes this planet. Let's wait a few thousand years before trying to colonize far off orbs and in the meantime spend all that money on solving more local problems - like famine in so many places on earth.

[WmNussbaum]

Not the greatest authority going, but here is the "Concerns" portion of the Wikipedia article on colonizing the Red Planet

Besides the general criticism of human colonization of space (see space colonization), there are specific concerns about a colony on Mars:
Mars has a gravity 0.38 times that of the Earth and a density of the atmosphere of 1% that on Earth.[18] The stronger gravity than the Moon and the presence of aerodynamic effects makes it more difficult to land heavy, crewed spacecraft with thrusters only, yet the atmosphere is also too thin to get very much use out of aerodynamic effects for braking and landing. Landing piloted missions on Mars will require a braking and landing system different from anything used to land crewed spacecraft on the Moon or robotic missions on Mars.[19]
The question of whether life once existed or exists now on Mars has not been settled, raising concerns about possible contamination of the planet with Earth life. See Life on Mars.
Advocates of a return to the Moon say the Moon is a more logical first location for a first planetary colony, perhaps using it as practice for future manned missions to Mars.[31] However, in several ways experience gained on the moon would not be applicable to the task of colonizing Mars. The moon has no atmosphere, no analogous geology and a much greater temperature range and rotational period. These differences mean that Mars has more in common with Earth than Earth has with the Moon. Antarctica or desert areas of Earth provide much better training grounds at vastly lesser cost. Also, the Moon is extremely poor in several of the key elements required for life, most notably hydrogen, nitrogen and carbon (50 â€" 100 ppm)[citation needed], and has only 47.2% of the delta-v requirement for launching to orbit that Mars has.[32]
It is unknown whether Martian gravity can support human life in the long term (all experience is at either ~1g or zero gravity). Space medicine researchers have theorized on whether the health benefits of gravity rise slowly or quickly between weightlessness and full Earth gravity. One theory is that sleeping chambers built inside centrifuges would minimize the health problems. The Mars Gravity Biosatellite experiment was due to become the first experiment testing the effects of partial gravity, artificially generated at 0.38 g to match Mars gravity, on mammal life, specifically on mice, throughout the life cycle from conception to death.[33] However, in 2009 the Biosatellite project was cancelled due to lack of funds.
Mars' escape velocity is 5 km/s, which, though less than half that for Earth, is reasonably high compared to the Moon's 2.38 km/s or the negligible escape velocity of most asteroids.[34] This could make physical export trade from Mars to other planets and habitats less viable economically.
There is likely to be little economic return from the colonization of Mars while Lunar and Near Earth Asteroid industry is likely to be exporting to Earth.[35]
Mars has dust storms which can reduce solar power. The largest of these storms can cover much of the planet.

[ronchamblin]

But Wm, the idea is to gain knowledge, and to experiment.  The cost is to be undertaken by private funds on this particular project.  Of course some would argue that the funds could better be spent on earthling’s more local or direct needs.  And what of the deaths of several Marsnauts during the process?  Hundreds of people die each second on earth, some enduring great suffering before their deaths.

Any Martian project would gain knowledge and experience on interfacing the environment away from earth, the consequences of which just might deliver some great surprises to us earthlings. 

What if there are Martians living underground on Mars?  After all, there is evidence that Mars formerly had surface water.  What if the Martians had a head start on evolving to intelligent beings two million years before earthlings?  What if, two million years ago, they had our technology of today, having back then the computers we have today.  Imagine what our computers will look like in two million years.

If this was the scenario, why didn’t they visit earth to live?  Perhaps our atmosphere was toxic to them.  And maybe they “are” living on earth, perhaps created or cloned Martians modified for earth living. 

I’ve read about evidence that the Martians, matching the “red planet”, tend to be somewhat like our Irish, having reddish skin and hair.  I’ve suspected for some time that we have several of these Martian transplants living right here in Jax.  And the Martian existence would explain some of the UFO’s spotted for decades all over our globe.  Who knows, maybe the fellow Jesus was a Martian.

And the Martians might have already discovered how to travel to the far star systems, including other habitable planets.  Our planet of course has a limited life span.  The Martians could assist us when we must finally escape our dying or destroyed planet.

And who knows, the female Martians might be sorta cute.  We could, us human men and women, have sex with the Martian persons, assuming of course that their configuration allows it.  If so, what would we call the offspring?  Would we call them “Hummars”, or “Marhums”?  Yes, this Martian thing could be interesting.   

[BridgeTroll]

To answer Mr Nussbaums question of who would want to do such a thing.... please put me on the list!  I have always been a proponent of manned exploration and colonization beyond earth... and it will happen.  I am personally doubtful of 2023 landing on Mars.  I will agree with Nussbaum that we should begin by doing this on our Moon first.  Its relative proximity would certainly aid in "working out the kinks".  As for the long transit times and and the ability to get along for long periods in space... we have been doing this for a few decades now in various space stations.  The recycling of urine and other liquids is already being done on the International space station.

Bottom line for me is... lets colonize the moon first...

[WmNussbaum]

And who knows, the female Martians might be sorta cute.  We could, us human men and women, have sex with the Martian persons, assuming of course that their configuration allows it.  If so, what would we call the offspring?  Would we call them “Hummars”, or “Marhums”?  Yes, this Martian thing could be interesting.   

Ron, you're a dirty old man!

Wanna start a club?

[Jason]

It's not interesting stuff. It's stupid stuff. Consider:

Assume the pioneers are fairly old - say 35. That means a life expectancy under rigorous conditions of maybe 25 years - guessing. Who would want to live in a cocoon eating dehydrated food for that long? How much water would they need for that long considering that Mars has no atmosphere from which water could be extracted by any sufficient means known today. If one could get by on as little as 1 gallon a day, that means for one person 1 x 365 x 25 or 9,125 gallons for the 25 years. And for the 4 folks that adds up to 36,500 gallons. A gallon of water weighs a bit over 8 pounds, so you're talking about 146  tons of water at take off. (Listen up Zephyrhills!)  More if someone wants to bathe in some fashion a couple of times each decade.

The website actually answers this question.  The Life Support pod that will delivered prior to the Earthlings arrival will already be producing storable amounts of water and air.  The rover would be used to dig up local soil (that contains ice) and extract the water from it and use portions of the water to produce oxygen.  After extraction of the water, the rover dumps the dry dirt and reloads the pods with fresh product.

Speaking of excrement as I did in post #1, what do you do with 25 years worth of shit? Make a big pile far from camp? In zero atmosphere how long would it take that shit to disappear? Turn urine into water somehow? Okay, maybe, but at 1 gallon of water a day, how much urine is that going to produce? Well maybe we could up it to 2 gallons a day. Oops, that means 292 tons of water at take off.

I would think that waste would be handled in a similar fashion as here on Earth.  Just dig a hole.

Who would front all the money considering an anticipated 0.00% return on the investment? Would I invest $1,000.00 in the hope of getting back ten-fold by the time I'm 200+ years old. Hmmmmm. Let me think. Okay, I've thought. No!

The proposed ROI for this project is advertising as well as a proposed reality TV show with real time footage of the project's progression.  Have you ever seen the Truman Show? 

Summing up: I just don't think so - not with today's technology as advanced as [we think] it is. But it's great fun to think up reasons why it won't work.  Oh one more: What would its area code and ZIP code be?

I think it can be done, however, I do agree with others in that we should start on the Moon and work out some of the kinks.

[WmNussbaum]

I wonder what kind of men and women would do this. Think about it: You leave all of your friends forever - other than electronic contact. You give up the food you love - pizza, steak, sushi, beer (there's a real deal killer). You live for many years in a small, antiseptic cocoon. If a disease hits, you're without the kind of medical care available on Earth. Perhaps in that antiseptic cocoon, some viral and bacterial diseases might be minimized, but not the Big C for instance.

Also, apropos of many comments in this forum, no high speed rail, no infill development, and no clowns in government to criticize. 

I think it would take some real different kind of folks to sign on for that gig. More likely is a super huge space ship that just does the Enterprise kind of thing and which could return to Earth without having to worry about escape velocity from some planet.

Yes I did see the Truman Show. Don't remember much about it - man in a bubble world being watched 24/7.