When did it all go wrong?

[cityimrov]

Jacksonville used to be a leader of business, culture, and wealth.  Now it is a shell of it's former self.  It is now a bottom feeder hunting for scraps that other cities have left behind. 

Yes, we know the city government has failed and we have discussed that many times before.  But Jacksonville is a conservative city, a city which doesn't trust government and to allow it's private citizens more personal control over their lives.  Citizens, it says, that could make better decisions than the government.  What happened to them?  What happened to that private leadership? 

To an outsider looking in, it might look like both the citizens and the city government failed.  We can find many threads here in MJ talking about where and when the city government failed but where and when did the people who live here fail?  What mistakes did they make?  When did they make it?  When did it all go wrong?

[peestandingup]

Good ol boy politics not interested in attracting the young & educated was probably a big one, much more than most people realize. The environment is usually going to reflect the type of people who live in it.

Being overdeveloped for no reason, gigantic sprawl, making horrible decisions regarding transit & leveling half of downtown, very little sense of community left, sporting blunders, etc contributed too.

[Tacachale]

That's ridiculous, cityimprov. Jacksonville has not declined from some glorious past. We were always just another mid-sized Sunbelt city that happened to have some incredible features. We've still got incredible features, and we've seen continued growth for decades.

The real question is why, as we continue to grow and progress, have we not done so on the level we'd like. There's a lot of inferiority complex at play there as well as a lack of vision and inadequate leadership. The same things we've gone over and over here.

[RockStar]

"What if this really is as good as it gets..."

[dougskiles]

I think the answer to your question is complacency.

[jerry cornwell]

 Man, Im having a GREAT time in J(action)ville!!!!
If youre asking "when did it go wrong" It was when Guliani was elected Mayor followed by Bloomberg! Talk about conservatism!
4 bands tonite at Burro Bar!!!!! Then Chomp! Chomp! there was a place like that in NYC called CBGBs, Its now a $$$$$ condo. 
Wasnt that a great show at CoRK last nite? Erics pieces rocked!
Oh, New York sux!

[Timkin]

Im with City Imrov on this one, tacachale.

As am I .   +1

[simms3]

All you have to do is look at new development.  An indicator you're lagging is when Charleston is building 3,500 new apartments right now, much of that infill - and there are maybe 800 units in Jax UC right now in the burbs?.  Greenville is building more than you, and as we have seen in the Garage Thread much of that is creative infill.  Charlotte is doubling their light rail and new investment money keeps pouring in for apartments and infill (despite economic uncertainties).  Raleigh is exploding with new apartment mid-rise infill along the Glenwood Ave corridor and north of downtown (~5,500 units).  Nashville already feels like a big city, and is continuing with major new projects, including 2 high rise hotels, a new CC, new ballpark, new office and loft office, and new apartment infill.

Birmingham seems to be on the rise again, too.  That city has more examples of infill than Jacksonville and has wonderful new parks and amenities much better connected than anything done in Jax in the past 12 years.  Salt Lake City is exploding.  Austin is already now a big city, despite having "only" 1.8 million people.  It is certainly no peer of Jacksonville's anymore, but was smaller a decade ago.

I think Jacksonville has wonderful features and potential, a better climate, and it is still growing, but it is falling far behind its peers and even cities smaller than it (Greenville, Charleston, Chattanooga, Birmingham, Savannah).  Usually ~10% privately placed investment cash goes to Real Estate, so multiply outside investment by 10x real estate investment to get to what's flowing to/through your city.  In Jacksonville's case that has shrunk inexcusably much, despite the influx of people continuing to flock to the city to live (and work).  There's some sort of disconnect.

[Ralph W]

Must be something in the water. Or maybe too much inbreeding among the good old boys stunting growth. It's showing up in even the small venues such as the RAM. Another thread showcases the dissatisfaction with a wonderful idea going to seed due to stunted vision and more inbreeding.

To paraphrase a parody of JFK and the football games on the Whitehouse lawn years ago - He was asked why everybody had to play by his rules. The answer? "Because it's my ball."

Too many in leadership roles are claiming to own the ball and the rules that govern the game. No room for development, expansion or any ideas from anyone else. Inbreeding at its finest.

[jerry cornwell]

That's ridiculous, cityimprov. Jacksonville has not declined from some glorious past. We were always just another mid-sized Sunbelt city that happened to have some incredible features. We've still got incredible features, and we've seen continued growth for decades.

The real question is why, as we continue to grow and progress, have we not done so on the level we'd like. There's a lot of inferiority complex at play there as well as a lack of vision and inadequate leadership. The same things we've gone over and over here.

On the mark. And the real question to ponder.

[officerk]

I have lived in the Jacksonville area on and off for the last 20 years and I have ALWAYS discribed it as the biggest small town I have ever lived in... It has some of the attractions of a major Metropolitan but I have LIVED in Major Metropolitans (Los Angeles, Norfolk and Orlando and visited many others) Jacksonville just doesn't have the FEEL of those. It is not RUN like those cities. It is still run like a small town. 

[ronchamblin]

If we are to accept the fact that we “are” different than other cities of similar size, the difference being that we find it difficult to achieve the kind of stature we might imagine desirable; a stature which “they” are said to have achieved or are achieving, then we might wonder if there is “one” ingredient in our soup responsible for the difference.  Although one might be tempted to assign only one ingredient responsible for our alleged deficiency in stature, I suspect there are two, perhaps even three, tied together and acting in concert to affect the degree to which we can climb or descend in stature.

But one of those aspects or ingredients might be the ascendant one, and the other two or three a consequence of this first and most significant one.  So….what might be the first and most significant ingredient in our soup of influences affecting our stature? 

What are the candidates?  Perhaps the fact of our primarily conservative political base?  Perhaps the company kept by this conservative base and the various churches in the area?  Perhaps the good old boy habit of doing things?   

Being out of touch with the details of our local political dynamics, and some other conditions hidden from view, I must admit that I don’t know the answer.  I do sense however that the problem, if it is one of stature, is indeed the result of one or two significant factors acting together to shape the stature of our city.

If it is true that the fundamental causes can be limited to one or two significant factors, then there is hope for the stature of our city, for the solution lies in identifying the one or two culprits. 

What are the clues?  Some of you who are more familiar than me might suggest some.  For example, how important is it for a political candidate for city council, for mayor, for sheriff, or for various other political offices to be a member of the First Baptist Church, or a member of any church?  We almost voted into the mayor’s office a solid member of the FBC.  What is the shape and significance of the good old boy syndrome some talk about? 

Are conservative mentalities entrenched and invulnerable to ouster to the point of being essentially dictators in our city?  I don’t know.  Conservatives, if they are entrenched, are comfortable being so, and happy, and therefore the stature of our city and the actions required to improve it might not be essential to their outlook and objectives.  In other words, there is not enough motivation for these good old boys to take the actions necessary to enrich the city, to bring up its stature, or to prepare the groundwork necessary for city core vibrancy.

But again, what are the one or two significant aspects in our city which might delay or obstruct the achievement of a greater stature, assuming of course that we are actually in need of a greater stature.     
   

[mtraininjax]

If this is truly to become a great city, it will need a great education system. It can be done, Newsweek rated Douglas Anderson and Paxon as the #8 and #23 best public high schools in the entire country. We have a great roadmap on what and how to create great schools. Question is, will we?

[officerk]

One of the biggest issues this town has is the pull that the churches have.  That is not something that you find as prevalent in your major Metropolitans, certainly not as in your face as it is here.  I don’t care what church someone goes to.   If this town really wants to GROW it needs to look more at what is good for the town not the church coffers.  While church goers may be voters I think that it might be found that there are more people who do not go to church than do, and they also may vote. 
There are more people who claim Christianity than not.  Those of us that are not are in the minority, I am aware of that.  BUT all Christians do not go to church and all Christians are not the same denomination going to the same church.  I think that perhaps one denomination having as strong an influence as it does on local politics is a major issue for Jacksonville.  I don’t see that changing any time soon.  The city’s masses just seem too happy the retardation of its maturation.

[Garden guy]

Jacksonville used to be a leader of business, culture, and wealth.  Now it is a shell of it's former self.  It is now a bottom feeder hunting for scraps that other cities have left behind. 

Yes, we know the city government has failed and we have discussed that many times before.  But Jacksonville is a conservative city, a city which doesn't trust government and to allow it's private citizens more personal control over their lives.  Citizens, it says, that could make better decisions than the government.  What happened to them?  What happened to that private leadership? 

To an outsider looking in, it might look like both the citizens and the city government failed.  We can find many threads here in MJ talking about where and when the city government failed but where and when did the people who live here fail?  What mistakes did they make?  When did they make it?  When did it all go wrong?

What a question...the answer lies in the history of the city...our elected city council has for many years defunded our infrastructure by lowering this tax and illiminating that fee...this is a right wing conservative republican city and that group is anti anything public...welcome to Jax...