Nocatee: The New Southside

[second_pancake]

It's funny they had the nerve to name a road 'Preservation Trail'.

LOL.  I thought the exact same thing;-)  What exactly did they "preserve" anyway?

Its definately not my cup of tea.  But one man's trash is another man's treasure.

I must be a true urbanite. Looking at that awful "stucco yucko" architecture (single- and multi-family) -- who cares if it's got a fancy entry gate -- makes me want to gag.

My sentiments exactly, guys.  Oh, and OKL, those things you asked for would actually make this place a REAL town.  Well, that and an elected town government, lol.  But as we all know, this is just another developer's poor attempt and trying to create something from scratch that in reality takes years to accomplish:  Community.

[duster1]

When I escaped from the westside and moved south of St. Augustine years ago I was wondering when US-1 would finally be snookered in. It started a few years ago with Julington Creek and will now be completed with Nocatee. Godspeed you northbound commuters cause that's the only speed you're gonna get.

[RiversideGator]

I hate to be mean, but this is just typical suburban garbage complete with tired, bad architecture.  If I see one more stucco house with cartoonish features and a garage door in the front of the house, I am going to be sick.  And, as someone else stated, how is this a new town that is different than countless other suburban tract house hellholes around town?  Answer:  It isnt.  SSDD.

[Lunican]

I agree Riverside. The photos sure do show a lot of asphalt.

[JeffreyS]

Stucco has to be on its way out soon. How long can this many houses, strip malls and apartments be produced with the same finish. I ride through the older parts of Argyle forest and think the old wood siding houses have so much character really plan old T111 siding has character compared to stucco.

[second_pancake]

Stucco has to be on its way out soon. How long can this many houses, strip malls and apartments be produced with the same finish. I ride through the older parts of Argyle forest and think the old wood siding houses have so much character really plan old T111 siding has character compared to stucco.

I don't think we'll ever see stucco leave our area, unfortunately.  I never understood the appeal really.  I live in a stucco house built in the late 70's and no good comes from it, aesthetically or structurally.  We've replaced an entire wall that was rotted to the sill-plate because of old cracks in the stucco that allowed water seepage.  We live in a place that experiences large periods of rainfall and we're going to cover our wood-frame homes with a porous cement material?  I love the Hardi-board planks (cement & fiber) that simulate the old wood siding you're talking about.  When primed and painted, you can't tell the difference between them and wood and of course, they stand-up much better to our local climate and require much less maintenance than wood.

Facts are, stucco is cheap, any average moron can put it up, it requires less time to install, and can be put over virtually anything...even those nice styrofoam pseudo-cornices and pilasters we so often see.  Put that against any other covering and stucco will win everytime

[hank]

I am in the "makes me want to puke" camp on this one but I recognize that developers are continuing to refine their game and add amenities that will make this community better off than the isolated tract home of only 5-10 years ago.  The fact that a "town center" is now an essential ingredient of greenfield developments is interesting because it means that this operations target demographic want all the things the urbanists in this blog want - a working, walkable, shopable downtown... only clean, semi-public (read exclusive), and NOW.  Who wants to put all the years of effort into reviving downtown when you can just buy a ready-made!

It is disheartening to see how all these people and businesses are going to be pulled further afield of downtown but this is a done deal.  Lesson for downtown though: look at the greenspaces and amenities that these developers saw were important enough to build - space that makes them no direct dollars the way real-estate square footage does.  Without parks, great public buildings, plazas, transit stops and facilities, downtown is just a sub-division without a fitness center.

[hank]

...regarding amenities, etc..

[Jason]

Wow, I'm impressed.  I wonder if there will be a resort tied to this.

[Charleston native]

  Good grief, hank. As a swimmer and swimming enthusiast, those pictures show the quintessential amenities that would make me want to move to Nocatee. I would love for my family to live near parks like this! What I don't understand is that many of you are sickened by development like this and complain that there isn't an initiative to build residences downtown. Here's the important question to consider: do you honestly think developments like this would be built downtown? Look at those pics; do you think a waterside water park like this could even be built downtown?

The bottomline is that most downtowns are not conducive for amenities like this...and there is a big market for them. People want live near their version of paradise, so to speak.

[Jason]

That is certainly a suburban ammenity and will likely never be built in an urban environment.  Both are two different worlds and cater to different types of people.  My gripe is that this development is beginning as a completely isolated "island" that is requiring massive amounts of infrastructure upgrades and expansions to accomodate it.  It could just as easily have been built up against another neighborhood and have been an expansion and enhancement of an existing area.  It could have also joined another neighborhood with a gridded street system and include pockets of natural preserves and higher density, and still be able to support the same lifestyle in a more walkable community that will suffer less headaches due to traffic congestion.

Nocatee is not necessarily a community.  It is a pre-planned region along a new highway that will be lined by single entry housing divisions similar to the 210 corridor, however, will have some better ammenities.  I'm sure it would be a great place to live and raise a family but don't be fooled by statements of "town centers" and "walkability" because a car will most certainly be a necessity for you to live there.

[thelakelander]

Wow, I'm impressed.  I wonder if there will be a resort tied to this.

No.  Its a part of the recreational area.  It can be seen in the top of this image.

[thelakelander]

Good grief, hank. As a swimmer and swimming enthusiast, those pictures show the quintessential amenities that would make me want to move to Nocatee. I would love for my family to live near parks like this! What I don't understand is that many of you are sickened by development like this and complain that there isn't an initiative to build residences downtown. Here's the important question to consider: do you honestly think developments like this would be built downtown? Look at those pics; do you think a waterside water park like this could even be built downtown?

The bottomline is that most downtowns are not conducive for amenities like this...and there is a big market for them. People want live near their version of paradise, so to speak.

Something like this could be developed in a location like the Hogans Creek Greenway area, Metropolitan Park, McCoys Creek, Metropolitan Park and a host of other inner city areas, if the will and money to do so were present.  I don't believe this park will be open to the general public.  Nocatee has been set up where the residents who live there will have to pay extra for these services.  Kind of like a giant apartment complex or gated community with association fees to cover the cost of the amenities.  However, you do hit on something about the core.  The existing parks and open spaces definately need a make over.  If something like the Hogans Creek area can be improved to become the "Central Park" it once was, we'll see that the areas bordering it would become just as popular as new communities like Nocatee.

[Charleston native]

That is certainly a suburban ammenity and will likely never be built in an urban environment.  Both are two different worlds and cater to different types of people.  My gripe is that this development is beginning as a completely isolated "island" that is requiring massive amounts of infrastructure upgrades and expansions to accomodate it.  It could just as easily have been built up against another neighborhood and have been an expansion and enhancement of an existing area.  It could have also joined another neighborhood with a gridded street system and include pockets of natural preserves and higher density, and still be able to support the same lifestyle in a more walkable community that will suffer less headaches due to traffic congestion.

Nocatee is not necessarily a community.  It is a pre-planned region along a new highway that will be lined by single entry housing divisions similar to the 210 corridor, however, will have some better ammenities.  I'm sure it would be a great place to live and raise a family but don't be fooled by statements of "town centers" and "walkability" because a car will most certainly be a necessity for you to live there.

Walkability is not necessarily something that I need since I do prefer driving, but I do want the neighborhood I live in to have paved walking trails and sidewalks to allow for recreational walking, running, or biking. I see your complaint, though. Some money could be invested to build a project like this near a large neighborhood revitalization development closer to the core rather than building it further out. Building all of the extra infrastructure to develop this community is a bit wasteful when you could spend about half the money on already existing infrastructure.

Lake, good points. I don't believe a park like this could afford to be available to the general public, so if you could build an aquatics "town center" in older parks near older neighborhoods, you would have to consider fees or admission prices since you couldn't make those areas gated. However, I foresee many neighborhood associations protesting an idea like this, despite the fact that it could enhance their quality of life.

[hank]

Charleston, I wouldn't ever draw a direct parallel between a development like this and downtown.  I would however, as lakelander gets, like to see our parks improved to even 1/10th this level.  The spaces in a city that make it a great center for commerce, economic activity, and social excitement are public spaces that serve the masses - Central Park, Millennium Park, Grand Central, Boston Common, etc. The point is: Developers understand this - they know that putting up a bunch of houses isn't enough to draw people to their product.  They need to have something else to offer - something that compliments these houses that also happen to be available for sale in the vicinity.  I'd even go so far as to say the houses matter less!  If our civic leaders could learn this lesson, the could actually put our money to work with better parks and laws that encourage a vibrant downtown.

lake, what about something like San Fran's Embarcadero Center... not the greatest, but still an interesting model of private money creating public space.  I'd never hope so much but man, if developers can turn a backwoods highway plot into something this marketable... no, forget it... they'd screw it up!!