Jacksonville fights to keep fleeing young professionals

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

And ask yourself why Paige REALLY came back

In defense of Paige... she did some REALLY cool work up in New York.  I'm glad she's now over at CoWork.  She's doing a lot of behind the scenes stuff to get the conversation of making Jax attractive for the Creative Class moving forward.  She's already a real gem in this city IMO. 

No need to defend her, it wasn't a personal attack, just a question. 


But this:

The biggest problem with Jacksonville is what this article says.  I've been reading so many articles and it's been exactly like this.  Even our previous mayors have said the same thing. 

"Jacksonville is fine.  We just need to keep doing what we're doing.  Our main problem is image.  We just need to do more marketing to them.  Once we do that, everything will be fine."

All we need to do is market our downtown and people will stop seeing Jacksonville as a flyover city instead of a destination.    All we need to do is to tell these college kids that Jacksonville is fine with a few ads and maybe a few businesses to lecture them and they will stop going away.

If people here can't see the problem with this, I don't think Jacksonville will ever be a destination for smart young people because according to them, there is nothing wrong with Jacksonville FL.  If nothing is wrong, nothing needs to be fixed. 

If you look at it from a, 'How to Market Jacksonville" angle, I would say that we should use examples like Paige to push for the college grads.  Jacksonville, fortunately, is not and will never be like NYC or Chicago, and we are behind our peer cities like Nashville and Charlotte, so what do we have to offer?  Huge amounts of opportunity.  And not in the normal sense, but in the sense of if we could attract enough of the type of person who is capable of free-thinking and out of the box ambition, Jacksonvile is ripe with opportunity to be molded in their image to become the city they want instead of having to conform to an already defined place. 

[cityimrov]

If you look at it from a, 'How to Market Jacksonville" angle, I would say that we should use examples like Paige to push for the college grads.  Jacksonville, fortunately, is not and will never be like NYC or Chicago, and we are behind our peer cities like Nashville and Charlotte, so what do we have to offer?  Huge amounts of opportunity.  And not in the normal sense, but in the sense of if we could attract enough of the type of person who is capable of free-thinking and out of the box ambition, Jacksonvile is ripe with opportunity to be molded in their image to become the city they want instead of having to conform to an already defined place.

From what your saying, it sounds like in Jacksonville, they are free to be whatever they want but in someplace like NYC, they have to confirm to something?  I'm not sure that's what NYC or Chicago is like. 

Don't forget, thirty or so years ago, Jacksonville's peer cities was closer to NYC or Chicago then the ones everyone here is comparing itself to today.  Stephen posted an article here about Harlem once being called "The Jacksonville of the North". 

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

From what your saying, it sounds like in Jacksonville, they are free to be whatever they want but in someplace like NYC, they have to confirm to something?  I'm not sure that's what NYC or Chicago is like. 

Not at all.  I'm saying the level of competition among your peers in NYC and Chicago, soon to be Nashville and Charlotte, is that you have to fight everyday just to be anonymous.  Here, since we're not a 'chosen' city, you have more opportunity to become more.

[fieldafm]

I would say that we should use examples like Paige to push for the college grads.

Oh, if you could see an application I just submitted....

[cityimrov]

From what your saying, it sounds like in Jacksonville, they are free to be whatever they want but in someplace like NYC, they have to confirm to something?  I'm not sure that's what NYC or Chicago is like. 

Not at all.  I'm saying the level of competition among your peers in NYC and Chicago, soon to be Nashville and Charlotte, is that you have to fight everyday just to be anonymous.  Here, since we're not a 'chosen' city, you have more opportunity to become more.

I'm not sure about that.  I know a guy who earn a hefty salary and does way more things than he could have done in Jacksonville by just being anonymous.  You can be well known but does that help your career in any way? 

If I want to work on stem cell research and development, does being well known in Jacksonville help me in any way vs being anonymous in a city like Minneapolis or Rochester? 

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

From what your saying, it sounds like in Jacksonville, they are free to be whatever they want but in someplace like NYC, they have to confirm to something?  I'm not sure that's what NYC or Chicago is like. 

Not at all.  I'm saying the level of competition among your peers in NYC and Chicago, soon to be Nashville and Charlotte, is that you have to fight everyday just to be anonymous.  Here, since we're not a 'chosen' city, you have more opportunity to become more.

I'm not sure about that.  I know a guy who earn a hefty salary and does way more things than he could have done in Jacksonville by just being anonymous.  You can be well known but does that help your career in any way? 

If I want to work on stem cell research and development, does being well known in Jacksonville help me in any way vs being anonymous in a city like Minneapolis ?

It's not about being well know, it's about being able to influence policies and decision making for the region. 

Sure, you can benefit lots of people with your stem cell research in Minneapolis, anonymously for a large firm and sure you might get a bump in pay for your new discovery.  Or.....  You have your degree in bio-engineering, and move to Jacksonville and start a small reseach department, make that same new discovery that eventually becomes the Cityimrov Stem-Cell Research Ward at UF Shands. Next thing you know, we're the hotbed of all national Stem Cell R&D on the eastern seaboard.   Why?  Because the market here is wide open and it takes smart, young ambitious people to make things happen and here you still have the opportunity to get in at the ground level.

And I know I'm painting a really rosy picture, but we're marketing, right?

[cityimrov]

Simms actually painted a real picture the situation faced here http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,13339.msg247667.html#msg247667

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

...start a small reseach department, make that same new discovery that eventually becomes the Cityimrov Stem-Cell Research Ward at UF Shands.

I never said jump into an existing market.  I'm saying someone has to start it.  We have to figure a way to lure that person here.  We have to focus on what CAN happen.

[Tacachale]

I just found some interesting statistics. There are currently over 60,000 UNF graduates, of which 36,000, or 60%, have stayed in the Jacksonville area. This is a significantly higher percentage than even most of Florida's other state universities; for instance, about 100,000 of 250,000 USF graduates (40%) have stayed in the Tampa Bay area. This pattern has apparently kept up among recent graduates, including the 40% if our students who are not originally from the Jacksonville metro area.

This means that a significant portion of UNF graduates, including graduates who aren't originally from Jacksonville, are choosing to stay in Jacksonville after graduating. Overall, however, we're not producing very many college graduates - UNF is by far the biggest local school, but only has 60,000 graduates, in a metro area of over 1,000,000. This goes back to my earlier point about Florida's limited college options. I notice that Tampa scores similarly to us.

There's not much we can do about that. Neither UNF nor the other colleges are going to grow substantially (and UNF will never grow beyond about 25,000 students a year), and at this point it's unlikely that anyone will start an additional college (a real college, not a for-profit). But there are other things that can be done. UNF is currently working on improving its graduation rate, which would increase the local number of graduates. However, the rest is going to be in the city's hands to cultivate an environment attractive to college graduates.

[thelakelander]

^Charlotte basically gave a college an incentive deal it couldn't refuse to pick up and move from a different state to Uptown in the early 2000s.  Where there is a will, there's a way.

[Tacachale]

^Charlotte basically gave a college an incentive deal it couldn't refuse to pick up and move from a different state to Uptown in the early 2000s.  Where there is a will, there's a way.

Well, that was an unusual situation. In this day and age it's so difficult to start a school, you can't count on that stuff to happen. Though you need to be ready to pounce when it does happen. We couldn't even get it together enough to convince the law school to move into the area where all the law stuff's at.

[thelakelander]

Yes, we dropped the ball on Florida Coastal.  You're right.  You have to be ready to pounce when unusual opportunities pop up. 

[tufsu1]

I just found some interesting statistics. There are currently over 60,000 UNF graduates, of which 36,000, or 60%, have stayed in the Jacksonville area. This is a significantly higher percentage than even most of Florida's other state universities; for instance, about 100,000 of 250,000 USF graduates (40%) have stayed in the Tampa Bay area.

Keep in mind that USF started 15-20 years before UNF and now has over 50,000 students.  Basically it has larger brand recognition and reach.  This will change as UNF continues to grow and attract students from out of the area, state, and even country.

as for UNF never being more than 25,000 students, I think you're wrong...their campus master plan calls for  23,000 by 2020 and I'm betting that estimate is low

[cline]

I just found some interesting statistics. There are currently over 60,000 UNF graduates, of which 36,000, or 60%, have stayed in the Jacksonville area. T

This means that a significant portion of UNF graduates, including graduates who aren't originally from Jacksonville,  are choosing to stay in Jacksonville after graduating.

Yeah but how many of the graduates were originally from Jacksonville.  I would like to know that because I bet the number is very high.  For a long time UNF basically pulled most of its students from Jax.  That is beginning to change now.  But if only 36k graduates are choosing to stay in Jax and say, for example, 50k of the 60k total graduates are originally from Jax, then we're losing UNF grads to other cities.

[Tacachale]

I just found some interesting statistics. There are currently over 60,000 UNF graduates, of which 36,000, or 60%, have stayed in the Jacksonville area. This is a significantly higher percentage than even most of Florida's other state universities; for instance, about 100,000 of 250,000 USF graduates (40%) have stayed in the Tampa Bay area.

Keep in mind that USF started 15-20 years before UNF and now has over 50,000 students.  Basically it has larger brand recognition and reach.  This will change as UNF continues to grow and attract students from out of the area, state, and even country.

as fro UNF never being more than 25,000 students, I think you're wrong...their campus master plan calls for over 23,000 by 2020 and I'm betting that estimate is low

You're quite right on USF. My point was that UNF graduates stay in-region at a much higher rate than other SUS schools. It's something to work with.

On growing, I won't say it'll never happen (this is Florida and we done like growth), but the plan is to cap out at around 25,000 students. That's the number we feel we can serve while maintaining our focus on teaching and class size; we don't want to grow any more than that.

I just found some interesting statistics. There are currently over 60,000 UNF graduates, of which 36,000, or 60%, have stayed in the Jacksonville area. T

This means that a significant portion of UNF graduates, including graduates who aren't originally from Jacksonville,  are choosing to stay in Jacksonville after graduating.

Yeah but how many of the graduates were originally from Jacksonville.  I would like to know that because I bet the number is very high.  For a long time UNF basically pulled most of its students from Jax.  That is beginning to change now.  But if only 36k graduates are choosing to stay in Jax and say, for example, 50k of the 60k total graduates are originally from Jax, then we're losing UNF grads to other cities.

As I say, among in-state students, about 40% come from outside the metro area (there are also out of state and international students, but the numbers are much smaller). This is a higher proportion than it used to be, and it's growing. The numbers are complicated as record keeping has changed over the years.

In the early years a much higher percentage of UNF students were from Jacksonville, and moreover the majority were non-traditional commuter students - many of whom were already vested in the community before seeking a degree. At the same time, though, the university was much smaller back then. Into the 90s we were graduating only around 1500 students a year; it's 3500 a year now.

It's also harder to tell patterns among recent graduates as well. Some stick around and then move; others move (for instance for grad school) and then return. But I'm told the general pattern continues: a majority of UNF graduates, including students not originally from the Jacksonville area, are choosing to remain in Jacksonville.