The Premature Destruction of Downtown Jacksonville

[thelakelander]

Great article with some great advice. Does anyone know what the heck is going on with the old library? I worry that someone will come in with grand ideas buy the place and let is languish around for years.

That's already happened.  There's a group that purchased it a few years back for a mixed use project but financing and the economy have made it difficult to pull the concept off.

[Wacca Pilatka]

Whatever happens they had better save those brick carvings.  It's unconscionable that the Klutho-commissioned Jax history lunettes in the old City Hall were destroyed when that building was torn down.

[Bativac]

...Short term: Allow those food trucks that are so in vogue to use the parking lot - assuming there will be enough folks close by to patronize them after the courthouse workers move away.

Use an empty riverfront parking lot to generate interest and foot traffic? What are you, crazy? Next you'll suggest that they do repairs on that death-trap of a Southbank Riverwalk!

[simms3]

I wonder if a waterfront convention center will attract more business than one not on the waterfront. Why would it? If you want to attract convention business provide something for the attendees to do besides looking across a parking lot at the St. Johns River.

Short term: Allow those food trucks that are so in vogue to use the parking lot - assuming there will be enough folks close by to patronize them after the courthouse workers move away.

I believe the convention center would occupy both the parking lot and the old courthouse site.  There would still be room for food trucks on the streets around the CC.  That site also already provides attendees and conventioneers more to do than any other in the city.  It is near all the cultural venues, the Landing, the bars and the Riverwalk.  Putting the CC somewhere else would ensure that wandering conventioneers would venture through blighted, dead areas and would never experience the scenery and uniqueness that is Jacksonville, i.e. the River City.

Now, the big point of this article is whether the city or any private developer would actually do anything with the site if they tear the old courthouse down.  History says the city would allow the site and the area to become blighted - filled with weeds and vagrants.

[Tacachale]

Great article with some great advice. Does anyone know what the heck is going on with the old library? I worry that someone will come in with grand ideas buy the place and let is languish around for years.

Word of mouth is Cesery bought the place with grand ideas, then was inundated with friends/family/ investors/COJ telling him to do XYZ. Now he has enough ideas, but no idea where to go from here....

Just before the recession hit it was picked up by an ownership group that includes Bill Cesery, who want to turn it into retail and offices. They actually got a lot of interest from small tenants but need a big anchor tenant to secure the financing for the final development. Since the recession they haven't been able to get an anchor tenant; I believe most recently they were trying to get a technology company in there but I don't think that panned out.

[Kaiser Soze]

Agree with bensays, having spent a good deal of time in the courthouse, I have a hard time seeing that thing being adapted into anything useful.  Like the idea of converting portions of the JEA Southside facility and the Shipyards to parks but only portions.  Those areas are pretty contaminated.  Personally, we have a great zoo.  Would love to see a convention center with a nearby naval museum and aquarium on the water.

[vicupstate]

I think part of the 'incentive' on the part of the powers that be to demolish these buildings, is that if they are allowed to remain, they might return to public use.  In other words a future administration might decide to move Voter Registration or some other office(s) to the building. 

From strictly a monetary sense, that has obvious appeal as minor upfit would be much cheaper than leasing or building new. 

At that point, however, any 'grand visions/political legacies' for the site would once again be on hold. 

Not saying I agree with that logic, but just saying it is part of the equation in this decision.

[avonjax]

I say leave the Annex period. Do a Goldtex to it. That's a great looking reuse. We desperately need something like that in Jax. And ONLY when every minute detail is finalized should the old Courthouse be razed. Anything less and we have another calamitous eyesore.
Railroad Row was a great area. I remember it well. When I think about what it could be now, it makes me sad. I believe it just may have become a vibrant neighborhood by now.
The whole west side of Main was very dense back in the 70,s and it's possible that downtown would be a different place had we not completely destroyed everything in sight. Just the old hotels going down make me sad. Imagine what could have been done with them.
I'm still upset about the Bell South building going down for......NOTHING.
That was a great little building and in my opinion a nice looking one.
I hope the right people see this and correct the horror of the last 40 years.

[ChriswUfGator]

Just give them away, putting a reverter clause in the deed that the parcels cannot be used for parking, and be done with it.

[thelakelander]

I think part of the 'incentive' on the part of the powers that be to demolish these buildings, is that if they are allowed to remain, they might return to public use.  In other words a future administration might decide to move Voter Registration or some other office(s) to the building. 

From strictly a monetary sense, that has obvious appeal as minor upfit would be much cheaper than leasing or building new. 

At that point, however, any 'grand visions/political legacies' for the site would once again be on hold. 

Not saying I agree with that logic, but just saying it is part of the equation in this decision.

Using the City Hall Annex for additional public use (assuming we need the space) on the upper floors isn't a bad idea.  That's still something that brings hundreds of people to the site daily and the ground level could easily house retail/entertainment uses.  If and when a convention center comes, it's possible they could co-exist.

[peestandingup]

Does anyone remember the final episode of little house on the prairie when they blew up the town on purpose?

[avonjax]

Does anyone remember the final episode of little house on the prairie when they blew up the town on purpose?

That's where we get our ideas for Jax....LOL

[fieldafm]

Word of mouth is Cesery bought the place with grand ideas, then was inundated with friends/family/ investors/COJ telling him to do XYZ. Now he has enough ideas, but no idea where to go from here....

He needs more people to want to lease from him, until then he can't get financing on the project.  That project has been stalled simply b/c of the economy.

I often imagine if Peterbrooke did get the building when they were originally awarded it though(they backed out due to larger than expected site remediation costs)...  still think that would have been a pretty cool use of the building.

[ben says]

Word of mouth is Cesery bought the place with grand ideas, then was inundated with friends/family/ investors/COJ telling him to do XYZ. Now he has enough ideas, but no idea where to go from here....

He needs more people to want to lease from him, until then he can't get financing on the project.  That project has been stalled simply b/c of the economy.

I often imagine if Peterbrooke did get the building when they were originally awarded it though(they backed out due to larger than expected site remediation costs)...  still think that would have been a pretty cool use of the building.

+1

[Steve_Lovett]

There is confusing terminology going around.....  Plans, Visions, Ideas, etc....

Those are fine terms, but what Jacksonville has never had in my estimation is a clear set of Goals and Objectives.

If you have a clear set of Goals and Objectives, then you can create Plans and Visions to achieve them.  We've been working backwards, creating a bunch of plans and trying to implement them, which is probably why so many plans that have been started haven't been successful or fully realized.

With respect to these buildings - I think a healthy discussion and establishment of larger Goals and Objectives for the city and for the Waterfront should be the immediate top priority.  With those in place, then we can make better decisions about how the plan of action on these sites that reinforces the established goals.

In my opinon - the biggest question that should be answered is how on a project that had its genesis in 2002-3 are we just now making such important decisions, and how do we make sure that we have a more intelligent process in the future to ensure this sort of thing doesn't happen again.