The Premature Destruction of Downtown Jacksonville

[peestandingup]

Does anyone remember the final episode of little house on the prairie when they blew up the town on purpose?

That's where we get our ideas for Jax....LOL

No doubt some city leaders saw that episode & a light when off in their heads. "OMG, what a great idea! Just keep exploding the town, building over it, then do it over & over. Think of all the industry that'll create! Then build a super expensive monorail over the ruins, make it go nowhere so eventually we can tear that down too." *high fives & brandy wine all around*

[thelakelander]

^Great post Steve!

[simms3]

^^Agreed.  Great post.

[tufsu1]

TransForm Jax has been looking at the convention center issue for several months.  Using the current courthouse site and adjacent parking lot would allow for about 200,000 square feet of contiguous (single-level) exhibit space.  This seems to be the magic number bantered about by folks in the industry for attracting medium-sized cnventions and shows.  There would also be room for ballrooms, meeting rooms, and retail space along Bay St and the riverwalk.  If need be, the center could later be expanded diagonally acrosss the street, with relocation of the Police Memorial Building and jail.

One of the regular posters here on MJ, Jason, has modeled what a potential center on that site could look like.  The image can be found here.

http://transformjax.wordpress.com/2012/03/08/convention-center-concept-taking-shape/

[Noone]

Word of mouth is Cesery bought the place with grand ideas, then was inundated with friends/family/ investors/COJ telling him to do XYZ. Now he has enough ideas, but no idea where to go from here....

He needs more people to want to lease from him, until then he can't get financing on the project.  That project has been stalled simply b/c of the economy.

I often imagine if Peterbrooke did get the building when they were originally awarded it though(they backed out due to larger than expected site remediation costs)...  still think that would have been a pretty cool use of the building.

+1

+2

[simms3]

TransForm Jax has been looking at the convention center issue for several months.  Using the current courthouse site and adjacent parking lot would allow for about 200,000 square feet of contiguous (single-level) exhibit space.  This seems to be the magic number bantered about by folks in the industry for attracting medium-sized cnventions and shows.  There would also be room for ballrooms, meeting rooms, and retail space along Bay St and the riverwalk.  If need be, the center could later be expanded diagonally acrosss the street, with relocation of the Police Memorial Building and jail.

One of the regular posters here on MJ, Jason, has modeled what a potential center on that site could look like.  The image can be found here.

http://transformjax.wordpress.com/2012/03/08/convention-center-concept-taking-shape/

That's phenominal.  I could imagine conventioneers strolling the Riverwalk between that and the Landing, and perhaps across the Main St over to Friendship Park and a parked ship/naval museum.  I also imagine more yachts and tall ships and boats parking along the Riverwalk there.  Would be an incredible use of our resources and a good impression to the tens of thousands of visitors to our city (some visitors would include business leaders in a position to advocate for expansion or relocation).

[Steve_Lovett]

Word of mouth is Cesery bought the place with grand ideas, then was inundated with friends/family/ investors/COJ telling him to do XYZ. Now he has enough ideas, but no idea where to go from here....

He needs more people to want to lease from him, until then he can't get financing on the project.  That project has been stalled simply b/c of the economy.

I often imagine if Peterbrooke did get the building when they were originally awarded it though(they backed out due to larger than expected site remediation costs)...  still think that would have been a pretty cool use of the building.

+1

+2

I don't buy the economy argument.

If you travel, you see many projects moving ahead in almost every other large city in the country - both public and private.

Using the economy is an easier excuse than to accept the fact that Jacksonville hasn't adapted as well as pretty much every other city in the country.

[Steve_Lovett]

TransForm Jax has been looking at the convention center issue for several months.  Using the current courthouse site and adjacent parking lot would allow for about 200,000 square feet of contiguous (single-level) exhibit space.  This seems to be the magic number bantered about by folks in the industry for attracting medium-sized cnventions and shows.  There would also be room for ballrooms, meeting rooms, and retail space along Bay St and the riverwalk.  If need be, the center could later be expanded diagonally acrosss the street, with relocation of the Police Memorial Building and jail.

One of the regular posters here on MJ, Jason, has modeled what a potential center on that site could look like.  The image can be found here.

http://transformjax.wordpress.com/2012/03/08/convention-center-concept-taking-shape/

Remember that the Courthouse Parking Lot is suspended above the river on pilings.  Also remember that a the high-capacity live structural loads of a Convention Center are much higher than a parking lot - and if built over the river new/upgraded pilings will require forever ongoing maintenance.

I recall seeing a study that structural requirements to support something like this could cost $20-million alone.  This becomes a very expensive piece of land on the river.

Together with the Hyatt and Berkman it would create a huge barrier to the river from the Bay Street public edge.  The site is also not easily expandable/adaptable for long-term future growth.

I've seen more than one idea or recommendation for this site, but I'd like to see a more comprehensive vetting - incorporating greater context and many more factors.

[fsujax]

@Steve I wonder why that is? there seems to be so many of us here who share the same goals and visions for the City, but we just cant seem to get there.

[Noone]

Just got back from an epoch paddle and one of the best fishing days that I have ever experienced at a truly unique DOWNTOWN Urban Waterway Destination. By the park bench and under the baricade caught some nice over size reds.

Put in at Mayor Brown's kayak launch at the city marina and paddled against the tide. Wind was strong and made for a sporty paddle both ways. Like the CC idea. Lets just not rush to tear down.

I am Downtown and why your not.

[mtraininjax]

Head up the road a ways to Laura and Forsyth and feast your eyes on the Laura Trio, those things have been vacant since before Delaney's term, no one has resurrected them as a place to live, so why should anyone think that an asbestos filled building like the Annex will make a better spot for living or as a hotel? Use the Brown lingo of "Public/Private" investment and realize that space is destined for a CC.

Once they get the DIA together,

He's been in office almost a full year, I hope he realizes his term has an expiration on it, by the time he places people in the DIA, the term will be up and we'll all be complaining at how slow the city moves.

Has the old JEA building on Julia street been filled yet? I know it was gutted, and was empty for a while. How about the old Furchgott's on Adams? The old Arcade next to Farah's building on Adams? 11E and the Carling, are not full at 100%, and lest we forget the Church Street Townhomes or the Metropolitan, are they all full and taking people on a waiting list?

Fact of the matter is that when the State Attorney's office leaves and all other public officials for elsewhere, there will be 2 more empty buildings on the City Books to add to a boatload of existing properties. The difference with the Annex and Courthouse, these are on the river, in close proximity to the Hyatt, who will be the best "Public/Private" offering that the city will find. The LAST thing the City needs/wants is an empty building ON the river, something for the tourists to poke fun at, along with the Laura Trio and Barnett Bank Building with all the windows open, now going on 3 years.

The old Library is a joke, the owners could have opened up a self storage facility and done something with the space, instead of holding out for the big deal. Even a farmer's market every weekend would have been Something.

And to the person who wanted to know why tourists want to come down and stare at the river from a parking lot? Because we got rid of the paper mills in the 80s, worked to redevelop parts of downtown in the 90s, had a BJP in the 00s, and we're now in a state where we have no money for anything new, but we still have the crown jewel of our city, the river. You got to use your strengths and the river is our top strength right now, sell the river to the tourists, most don't have what we have, be thankful for what we have now. 

[Jason]

Steve_Lovett  -  Do you see it to be feasible to do away with the pilings all together and just fill it in?  More/Less expensive?

[John P]

In my opinon - the biggest question that should be answered is how on a project that had its genesis in 2002-3 are we just now making such important decisions, and how do we make sure that we have a more intelligent process in the future to ensure this sort of thing doesn't happen again.

How? Lack of competent people in charge of these things

[crwjax]

Great article again; especially, the example of four vacant spaces from earlier premature decisions.  With a degree in planning, I realize that a major frustration (not only in Jacksonville) of the public about government are the plans sitting on shelves.  No implementation, no action.  People feel like money is spent to fill someone's pocket, but nothing is done on the street with the exception of another travel lane!  Thanks Ennis, you are doing everything you can to help the city out and I am grateful.

[simms3]

Is the Hyatt on pilings?

Also, great discussion.  The river is the city's greatest asset, no question.  Make it public and useful for visitors/tourists, and let developers build up to give residents a view over the public space/parks/CC that could line the river.