So what's your vision of what Jacksonville could be?

[Anti redneck]

Simms, how can we get your ideas carried out?

[Anti redneck]

And furthermore, Mayor Brown wants to "revitalize downtown". How can we make ourselves be heard with the ideas on here? This is all really good stuff! He would truly be more successful if he heard us out and carried through with a little input from us.

[cline]

Nobody should take lessons from the beach, that is Jacksonville Beach.  The good beach example for an urban beach is obviously Miami Beach and the good example for a planned, semi-urban beach is Seaside.  Atlantic Beach to me is much more impressive than Jacksonville Beach, even though it is much smaller.  I think Jax Beach is tacky, dirty, crimey (perception), poor and full of uneducated people who don't work professional jobs.  Atlantic Beach is mixed-income, but has a much better/nicer "facade", is more pedestrian/bike friendly, and while there are all income levels, it seems more like the people are better educated and have better jobs.

Wow, sounds like a lot of generalizations for someone who doesn't live there.  Perhaps you have something against Jax Beach.  Downtown Jax Beach has progressed farther along in the past 10 years than DT Jax has in the past 30 years.  While I'm a fan of AB as well, not sure that it is "much smaller"(...only about 7 sq.mi. smaller) than JB.  And while you might think JB is "tacky, dirty, crimey, poor and full of uneducated people who don't work professional jobs", I think the masses that flock from UNF and the Southside every weekend might disagree with you (unless you consider them "uneducated and crimey" as well).

At any rate, there's more to Jax Beach than just 1st street...you should look into it sometime.

And I'll assume your comparison to Miami Beach is a joke...Miami Beach is a world renowned destination...only a handful like it the world exist.  Not really a valid comparison.

And Seaside...really?  Some neo-traditional development built into the dunes of what used to be pristine beaches and that solely caters to rich retirees hardly qualifies as even a "semi-urban" beach.

[KenFSU]

Advertising is a component, but so is beautifying the horrifying drive in from JIA which is the last thing out of town visitors need to see.

Great point here about the drive from JIA.

[Anti redneck]

Jax Beach is far from a worldwide destination, but there some places worth hanging out at. Besides, I don't think JB is that bad. Definitely a lot better than Downtown. Downtown Jacksonville could definitely take lessons from Downtown Miami. Attractive skyline, beautifully lit up at night, etc. Good point about the drive from JIA. It gives a bad taste to a visitor automatically. Simms has a lot of good points on here.

[ronchamblin]

My vision of what Jax could be?  It would include a genuine momentum of job creation by way of new businesses, particularly in manufacturing.  Increased momentum in manufacturing would create other supporting businesses, and thus, more jobs for those who are non-professional and unskilled.  We should set ourselves to the path of making something, producing something, and remove ourselves further from the shuffling of paper, the selling of questionable intangibles, and the shuffling of imaginary financial gains via the trickery of stock market and banking shenanigans.

Manufacturing would create an environment where it would make sense for an individual to get training in the various trade schools.  Currently, almost any kind of training is useless, as there are very few jobs in the area.   

There is only so much warehouse work, cleaning work, or security work for the unskilled workers.  Admittedly, many individuals who could work, do not, as they have given up, having been turned down hundreds of times.  And for some, it’s easier to get free assistance, or to take by theft what they need, or to simply bum off of a relative or a friend. 

BTW, the homeless fellow I hired several weeks ago from Hemming Park, who had been living in the woods for three years after enduring an abusive JSO which is obviously infected with institutional arrogance to the point that they project stupidity, and a Jax court system too often uninterested in the truth and justice of a scenario, is already living in an apartment, owns an auto, has health care, and is working over forty hours per week.  The guy is a hard worker, and he is skilled in the type of work I need to have performed.     

Therefore, knowing of this individual’s experience, I can also envision a Jax with considerable improvement in our system of justice, better (not necessarily expensive) training for our JSO officers and detectives so that they can be effective and productive instead of working as mediocre wannaby JSO persons.

I’ve personally seen JSO detectives perform with attitudes and mentalities I can only describe as second-rate .  All this means of course is that good training is in store.  These fellows, not all of them, but I suspect too many of them, function with shameful mediocrity.  A journey to a system of high standards is in order.   
   
Currently, it seems that there are some in the JSO and the detective force who, having sensed that they have a temporary power over all citizens, have given themselves the freedom to perform without concern for high standards, or to the exertion of creativity to solve cases.  Some seem to serve with a relaxed indifference to justice and to the proper care to the concerns and the welfare of the average citizen.

Power does corrupt, even if only in attitudes and in the failure to focus with good attention to the ideal objectives of their chosen profession.  And rest assured, power mixed with failure on their part, means a cover-up is the order of the day.  Power, even subtle and temporary power, all too often removes the necessity to be honest and perform with integrity in dealings with the average citizen.

But of course we all possess a temporary and subtle power in our daily jobs as we encounter the public wishing our services.  And therefore we all must make decisions every day as to the level of honesty and integrity we wish to exert.  We must make a living, a profit, but we must also make happy the customer or the client.  Go greedily one way too far, and you go out of business.  Go too far in the customer’s favor, and you go out of business.   A delicate balance is the key… moderation.

In some ways, the JSO has an easier time in making decisions about how much to favor the public of their immediate concern, as they have very little concern about profit or efficiency.  Therefore one would think the average officer would find it easier to offer 100% attention to projecting integrity and honesty, and attention to job accomplishments.  There is little excuse for anything other than these attributes.  We, as citizens, pay them well so that they can be free from engaging in profit making decisions which might otherwise conflict with their ability to be honest and effective in their efforts to serve the public.  Does this sound like I'm bashing the JSO.  Not in any way.  I'm being honest though.  Does the truth hurt?  Yes.  But it is good. 

But yes, I encourage the idea of getting manufacturing into the area, which of course is not an easy task, as the momentum of it has shifted overseas thanks to our concerned politicians and large corporations as they have focused on decisions to line their pockets as the expense of the average American worker.

Money and power and greed = corruption and indifference to the needs of the masses.  Thus the one percent, and the increasing debacle of the ninety nine percent.  It is time for a revolution.  But you guys go for it.  I’m too busy making a living at the moment.           

[Timkin]

My vision of what Jax could be?  It would include a genuine momentum of job creation by way of new businesses, particularly in manufacturing.  Increased momentum in manufacturing would create other supporting businesses, and thus, more jobs for those who are non-professional and unskilled.  We should set ourselves to the path of making something, producing something, and remove ourselves further from the shuffling of paper, the selling of questionable intangibles, and the shuffling of imaginary financial gains via the trickery of stock market and banking shenanigans.

Manufacturing would create an environment where it would make sense for an individual to get training in the various trade schools.  Currently, almost any kind of training is useless, as there are very few jobs in the area.   

There is only so much warehouse work, cleaning work, or security work for the unskilled workers.  Admittedly, many individuals who could work, do not, as they have given up, having been turned down hundreds of times.  And for some, it’s easier to get free assistance, or to take by theft what they need, or to simply bum off of a relative or a friend. 

BTW, the homeless fellow I hired several weeks ago from Hemming Park, who had been living in the woods for three years after enduring an abusive JSO which is obviously infected with institutional arrogance to the point that they project stupidity, and a Jax court system too often uninterested in the truth and justice of a scenario, is already living in an apartment, owns an auto, has health care, and is working over forty hours per week.  The guy is a hard worker, and he is skilled in the type of work I need to have performed.     

Therefore, knowing of this individual’s experience, I can also envision a Jax with considerable improvement in our system of justice, better (not necessarily expensive) training for our JSO officers and detectives so that they can be effective and productive instead of working as mediocre wannaby JSO persons.

I’ve personally seen JSO detectives perform with attitudes and mentalities I can only describe as second-rate .  All this means of course is that good training is in store.  These fellows, not all of them, but I suspect too many of them, function with shameful mediocrity.  A journey to a system of high standards is in order.   
   
Currently, it seems that there are some in the JSO and the detective force who, having sensed that they have a temporary power over all citizens, have given themselves the freedom to perform without concern for high standards, or to the exertion of creativity to solve cases.  Some seem to serve with a relaxed indifference to justice and to the proper care to the concerns and the welfare of the average citizen.

Power does corrupt, even if only in attitudes and in the failure to focus with good attention to the ideal objectives of their chosen profession.  And rest assured, power mixed with failure on their part, means a cover-up is the order of the day.  Power, even subtle and temporary power, all too often removes the necessity to be honest and perform with integrity in dealings with the average citizen.

But of course we all possess a temporary and subtle power in our daily jobs as we encounter the public wishing our services.  And therefore we all must make decisions every day as to the level of honesty and integrity we wish to exert.  We must make a living, a profit, but we must also make happy the customer or the client.  Go greedily one way too far, and you go out of business.  Go too far in the customer’s favor, and you go out of business.   A delicate balance is the key… moderation.

In some ways, the JSO has an easier time in making decisions about how much to favor the public of their immediate concern, as they have very little concern about profit or efficiency.  Therefore one would think the average officer would find it easier to offer 100% attention to projecting integrity and honesty, and attention to job accomplishments.  There is little excuse for anything other than these attributes.  We, as citizens, pay them well so that they can be free from engaging in profit making decisions which might otherwise conflict with their ability to be honest and effective in their efforts to serve the public.  Does this sound like I'm bashing the JSO.  Not in any way.  I'm being honest though.  Does the truth hurt?  Yes.  But it is good. 

But yes, I encourage the idea of getting manufacturing into the area, which of course is not an easy task, as the momentum of it has shifted overseas thanks to our concerned politicians and large corporations as they have focused on decisions to line their pockets as the expense of the average American worker.

Money and power and greed = corruption and indifference to the needs of the masses.  Thus the one percent, and the increasing debacle of the ninety nine percent.  It is time for a revolution.  But you guys go for it.  I’m too busy making a living at the moment.           

I like this post alot.  Absolutely agree.  +1

[nomeus]

If Jacksonville solves its homeless problem it will be the first major city in the country to do so.  As far as downtown is concerned, invest in a day center outside of the heart of downtown.  At this point, whether one believes an investment in a day center is necessary or not, the main public library and Hemming are currently serving those roles.

solve is a bit much, i should have said work on it. solving homeless issues around the world is pretty unrealistic i think. making an effort isnt though.

[simms3]

Nobody should take lessons from the beach, that is Jacksonville Beach.  The good beach example for an urban beach is obviously Miami Beach and the good example for a planned, semi-urban beach is Seaside.  Atlantic Beach to me is much more impressive than Jacksonville Beach, even though it is much smaller.  I think Jax Beach is tacky, dirty, crimey (perception), poor and full of uneducated people who don't work professional jobs.  Atlantic Beach is mixed-income, but has a much better/nicer "facade", is more pedestrian/bike friendly, and while there are all income levels, it seems more like the people are better educated and have better jobs.

Wow, sounds like a lot of generalizations for someone who doesn't live there.  Perhaps you have something against Jax Beach.  Downtown Jax Beach has progressed farther along in the past 10 years than DT Jax has in the past 30 years.  While I'm a fan of AB as well, not sure that it is "much smaller"(...only about 7 sq.mi. smaller) than JB.  And while you might think JB is "tacky, dirty, crimey, poor and full of uneducated people who don't work professional jobs", I think the masses that flock from UNF and the Southside every weekend might disagree with you (unless you consider them "uneducated and crimey" as well).

At any rate, there's more to Jax Beach than just 1st street...you should look into it sometime.

And I'll assume your comparison to Miami Beach is a joke...Miami Beach is a world renowned destination...only a handful like it the world exist.  Not really a valid comparison.

And Seaside...really?  Some neo-traditional development built into the dunes of what used to be pristine beaches and that solely caters to rich retirees hardly qualifies as even a "semi-urban" beach.

All obvious points, but I've got to tell you that while folks in Jax Beach think their place is fine and dandy, it's a micro shithole filled with strip malls, rundown gas stations, faux stucco architecture, and filled with people who ABSOLUTELY do not want change.  They pride themselves on physical separation from the rest of Jacksonville, they don't want growth, they don't want change, and I don't even think they like all the UNF kids coming in according to some news articles and editorials I have read.  I have personally heard people say they don't want to "be another Miami Beach" as if that is some horrible thing.  The people in Jax Beach are more backward than the most backward people in Jacksonville.

And I mentioned Seaside because Jacksonville loves planned communities, and that is at the beach.  It's highly successful whether you happen to like it or not.  The next door community of Santa Rosa Beach is not for the wealthy and so within a mile of the place there are all incomes, and Destin nearby.  People want to go there.  Architectural Digest wants to showcase homes there.  The press of that area of FL reaches all across the globe, and as a result it has become quite a destination.  It is a very polished version of what Jax Beach could become if it didn't go the Miami Beach route, but it appears the locals wouldn't want to go any route except to stay the same.

The truth is the best hotel in Jax Beach is a FUGLY Suites near the Pavilion or that old 70s Holiday Inn on the beach further north with that pool feature.  Nobody wants to visit the crappiest city beach in FL - and I live outside of FL and have "come back to visit FL" with others who are from all over the place.  Discussions I have taken part in have always been directed at either Clearwater, Miami Beach, or the Keys.  I have been down to visit Naples almost as many times as I have come home (college buddy/roommate).  I have heard people even discuss visiting Jacksonville, Ponte Vedra, Amelia Island and Saint Agustine, but never Jax Beach.

My sister who was "Miss Jacksonville/Miss Ortega" mentality forever is in college at FSU, and has since made friends with all the south florida guys and girls and is down there all the time.  Her Facebook is littered with pictures from 40 floors up at the beach there and in Brickell, and I no longer see photos from Jax.  There just isn't anything exciting about Jax Beach and the bars really are lame at best (I have been to Brix and a few others - good for Jax, but would be lame anywhere else).  I have to be brutally honest, until more people want to truly compete on a FL level with all of the other FL cities and on a jobs/young professional level with the rest of the big cities in the south and across the country, the metro and its beaches are just going to plain suck suck suck.  There is no excitement.  The only place in FL that gets quiet earlier than Jax is SW FL, which is silent by 8 in the evening.  We are only an hour behind.  The rest of FL is much more exciting and makes Jacksonville look like a less desirable Myrtle Beach, i.e. we don't belong in FL.

[cline]

My sister who was "Miss Jacksonville/Miss Ortega" mentality forever is in college at FSU

Her Facebook is littered with pictures from 40 floors up at the beach there and in Brickell, and I no longer see photos from Jax.

Well, I guess when "Miss Jacksonville/Miss Ortega" starts taking pictures of Jax off of her Facebook page, that's a sure sign the city is going to the shitter.

[simms3]

Love your sarcasm.  I think my point is clear.  Her mentality has quickly changed and she has seen the light.  She never brings friends home, but her friends love showing her Miami and Tampa and she frequently comes up to Atlanta.  I am pretty close to her and her group of friends from HS as we are only 3 years apart, and the rest of her friends are in colleges outside the state.  It will be interesting to see where they end up, but I won't be surprised if they forgo having the best connections in Jax and just finding their own jobs in other cities.

There are two groups of people in Jax - those who grow up and don't really truly leave the city to live or work elsewhere.  They have this view that Jax is the greatest city on earth and they can't understand why others don't think so.  They stay.  Then there are those who leave for college and then for work, and they don't come back until they raise a family, if they come back at all.  These are your highly upwardly mobile folks, the ones you want to come back.  Other cities are finding ways of retaining their upwardly mobile folks, Jacksonville is bleeding them.  And we are perpetually the FL city where you raise a family and live a cookie cutter lifestyle, shunning the rest of the world and voting for John McCain.

Little Facebook comments and changes on people's profiles, including my once future Ortega mom sister's, can indicate this, believe it or not.  This girl was set in her ways - Sperry's, TCC, the simple life you know?  Now she wants a job in a big city - complete reverse shift.

[CG7]

I keep reading Jacksonville isn't like this place or that place like that is a bad thing. I am one of the backwards idiots that has lived here most of my life, and think it is the greatest city anywhere. I have been to New York to LA Miami to Chicago, and tons of smaller towns in between. I live in Avondale, and love everything about it. I have a really great job (for a backwards idiot), love to kayak, and indulge in our crappy culinary choices (Mossfire, Biscotti's,Indochine, Taco Lu etc). So continue to wish for something that Jacksonville isn't, me I'm happy as a stupid clam.

[fsujax]

I agree CG7, I went to college outside Jax and then moved and lived in big bad Atlanta for several years. I chose to come back to Jax. I dont have kids, just a dog. I love it here. I have travelled the world and the country and always enjoy coming back to Jacksonville. Could things be better, yes. I think we are now seeing some momentum and maybe one day we can grow up to be like Atlanta. NOT! It is all what you make of it.

[Tacachale]

Sperry's, TCC, the simple life you know?

Yes, that's truly an image anyone can relate to.

[KenFSU]

I think Simms hit on a much bigger point, which is:

Does Jacksonville want to change or grow?

Sadly, most empirical evidence seems to point towards "No."