"What's the deal" with Carmines not honoring coupons?

[David]

My lady bought a  groupon-like coupon off http://folioweeklydeals.kostizi.com/ for Carmines Pizza a few days ago. You pay 7.50 and you get a coupon for 15 dollars off.

So we went to Carmines tonight to eat and I presented the coupon when the check came. The server went to run it, then came back and politely told us the owner had never heard of this deal. My fiesty, fiery lady asked to speak to the owner.

The owner, a shorter middle aged guy with a salt and pepper buzz cut and  a goatee came over and said he'd never heard of this coupon.

I showed him the print out of the coupon :



He still denied it. We told them we just used the same coupon for through the same site @ O'Brothers a few weeks ago and they honored it. he still denied it.  I showed him the website I mentioned earlier on her Iphone. (The folioweely's site) He said it was fraud. 

He seemed like he genuinely believed that he had never heard of the coupon, but we still wanted it to be honored. We haggled back and forth for a few minutes, I even asked if he could just take a portion of the bill off for the misunderstanding (if infact the coupon we bought was fraud) He just didn't budge.

He didn't offer to pay for the cost of the coupon or check and see if it was infact invalid. He just flat out refused it.

He said "why would I sell my product half off?

My lady said "to pull in more customers"

He looked around at the line beginning to form at the door and said "do I look like I need more customers?

At that point, I realized he wasn't going to budge, and neither was my lady (rightfully so) But, I didn't feel like being there anymore so I got the check and left. Plus I had never heard of this coupon site either so I wanted to verify it, but it looks like it's valid.

This isn't my first time there either. I've been going there since the 2nd day it opened and I've been there countless times after.

So my message to the owner of Carmines is: how could you possibly not know of this arrangement? It's on the folio's website. It's printed out on a coupon with your name and address on it. And how it is a good business practice to not honor something in the face of (apparently) overwhelming evidence? And if's the folioweekly's and/or a third party's fault then...what's the deal with you guys offering fake coupons?

[thekillingwax]

I've heard of stuff like this before, but not locally. I wouldn't be so fast to place all the blame on Carmine's for this-  the kostizi place just copied and pasted their logo graphic and introduction off their website, there's nothing indicating they authorized this themselves. I'm kinda curious if Carmine's started advertising with Folio and didn't read some fine print somewhere where Folio sells coupons in their name from this third party.

I think you need to be questioning Folio and this Kostizi company. I only buy coupons from restaurant.com because the terms are clearly laid out. Looking at the coupon page you posted, there aren't any real terms, most places limit these coupons by the day you can use them and the total order amount minus alcohol purchases.

[David]

I've heard of stuff like this before, but not locally. I wouldn't be so fast to place all the blame on Carmine's for this-  the kostizi place just copied and pasted their logo graphic and introduction off their website, there's nothing indicating they authorized this themselves. I'm kinda curious if Carmine's started advertising with Folio and didn't read some fine print somewhere where Folio sells coupons in their name from this third party.

I think you need to be questioning Folio and this Kostizi company. I only buy coupons from restaurant.com because the terms are clearly laid out. Looking at the coupon page you posted, there aren't any real terms, most places limit these coupons by the day you can use them and the total order amount minus alcohol purchases.

I totally agree. I emailed Folio & Kostizi tonight about this and asked for a refund since the owner refused it, but i'm throwing it out here to see what everyone else thinks. If it was just released and it's the first the owner's heard of it, ok.

But still, his customer service was a little lacking, but the place was very busy so i'll give him that. I just think in that situation you should honor the coupon and go after the company using your name and logo. How is the customer supposed to know it's not a "real" coupon? Especially when it's on a (usually) trusted site like the folio weekly.

Trust me, this isn't one of those "i'm NEVER going back there" kind of rants. I love Carmines, I'll be back. It's more of a "i'm caught in the middle, wtf!?" kind of rant.

[Brian Siebenschuh]

This is probably BARELY on topic, but the Groupon style 50% off paid-up-front coupon idea is another bubble that's getting ready to burst.  We've all known for years now that the businesses that participated routinely lost money.  Now Harvard Business Review reports that Groupon itself is also losing money by the truckload.

Good riddance to a ridiculous fad.

[BridgeTroll]

Love carmines and eat there frequently but this comment is a bit disconcerting...

He looked around at the line beginning to form at the door and said "do I look like I need more customers?

[Bativac]

Trust me, this isn't one of those "i'm NEVER going back there" kind of rants. I love Carmines, I'll be back. It's more of a "i'm caught in the middle, wtf!?" kind of rant.

You're a better man than I am - I'd never set foot in the place again. Plus my wife would probably have been arrested.

The coupon is still available and looks official to me - whoever might have fraudulently put it up there went out of there way to write additional ad copy. So I would say it's legit and perhaps the owner just isn't familiar with it. That would drive me nuts, having something that I know is a valid coupon and not being able to use it...

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I think I'd definitely wait for an answer from Folio or the web-site.  Seems kinda sketchy.

Appears to me that a lot of money could be made by offering these kinds of deals just based off the assumption that the business would just be willing to accept them, or maybe someone did sign them up for it and didn't relay the message.   - I don't know?

The comment the owner made, probably not the most tactful answer, but was he right? 

Brian, when people use a 'groupon' type deal at Orsay (I think they used to be available there, but I don't remember), do you guys get reimbursed for any of the moeny or are you out the entire amount and chalk it up as 'advertising'?

[thekillingwax]

Carmine's isn't some big operation, the bald dude is in there all the time, he's seems pretty hands-on. I couldn't imagine someone else authorizing the coupon without him knowing. Never talked to the guy myself but he doesn't seem like the type to hold anything back, not totally gruff but I just figure that's his personality or how he handles business. May not be the best way, especially to those of us who are used to southern hospitality but the food is awesome and the servers have always been really excellent. I really do hope you can get to the bottom of it because it's pretty interesting, it's just too bad that it had to come at the cost of a nice night out for you and your wife.

As for these things going away, I'm not shocked. Ultimately, businesses are telling people that their product isn't worth the asking price. If you normally price an entree for $28 and someone gets it for $14, are they really going to want to pay the $28 next time around?

[fieldafm]

http://folioweeklydeals.kostizi.com/

Is a very legit site.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

The other thing that seems out of whack is the amount.

$15 at Carmines would be close to half of a couples' bill.  1 Pie, 2 salads and 2 glasses of wine would be in the neighborhood of $30-$35.  It would seem more plausible if it were along the lines of $10 off over $50 - at least this way everyone would up their check totals, probably with beer/wine, which everyone knows is the real money maker in the restaurant. 

[David]

I hardly use coupons, so I'm a bit wet behind the ears on coupon etiquette. Plus, I've never used groupon or anything groupon like, which is why I had to play the role of peace negotiator between the owner and my lady. If I thought for sure we were 100% right, I would've contested the charges and not paid, but having never heard of that site before I thought it was best to pay the bill then research it.

The original frustration was directed at the owner because he's playing the role of the bad guy, but if what he's saying is true then how can the folio offer this deal?  A regular, non-prepaid coupon that offers something off and gets denied is one thing, but when the site takes your money and it's not honored, I can understand why my lady feels like she's been had. 

I've emailed the site asking for a refund but i'm sure it'll take a while to get a response. (All of this over 7.50 hahaa, man!)

[fieldafm]

David, your situation is being resolved now.

[David]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the objective input. That's what makes this site great. I talked to Dustin at Folio and he pretty much said what Stephen & Mike said. It's a legit coupon and the owner just forgot about it.

[Captain Zissou]

That sounds like Bobby (the owner), not that he forgot, but how he handled it.  He's kind of a no holds barred guy when it comes to his business.  He's really helpful, but he lets it be known that he is there to make some money.
He supplies a great product that the neighborhood loves, so why shouldn't he be able to make a living from it.  You can't blame him, and you'd probably do the same in his situation.   I admire his gruff, no apologies demeanor.

Now that the situation is sorted out, I know he will be really helpful.

[dlake]

Hi everyone. Sorry for all the hassle but let me shine some light and put it all to rest. Consider this the "official" Folio Weekly response.

The gift voucher to Carmine's Pie House is legit. The agreement was worked out in October but at the request of the business owner we delayed the offering until after the holiday season. In that time, he simply forgot about the arrangement. He's on board and I'll be going by there today to review it all in person. This happens too often but unfortunately it is the nature of the beast. But, we've got a new mechanism in the works that will fix that issue. Bobby is a great guy and he's right, there ARE too many fake "offers" out there. Please continue to support his business. He's vested in the Riverside / Avondale community and means well. Kostizi is simply the company that hosts www.folioweeklydeals.com and aids in administration.

Here's the long if it all if you're interested:
About three years back Folio Weekly began offering "deals" with local businesses as a new way to drive consumers to their businesses as well as add media exposure. The former site wanted to go more toward the Groupon model with all that hoop-lah. We did our research and decided that the Groupon model was NOT in the best interest of local small businesses. Brian Siebenschuh is 100% correct, HBR and a number of other entities have reported the degenerative effects of this model on small business. That's why you see them offering deals to magazine subscriptions and things of that sort now.

Folio Weekly's "What's the Deal" is set up to offer a FINITE amount of gift vouchers as "trade" for advertising with Folio Weekly (but we do not offer 100% trade for ads). The goal is to give local businesses the opportunity to market to our 127,212 weekly readers (Scarborough Research 2011) but defer some of the cost in lieu of gift vouchers that we sell online. Thus driving consumers directly to their business but not so many that they have to start doing their business on discount and crippling themselves (Groupon. Living Social, etc). The gift voucher amount and offering is determined by the business owner and their Folio Weekly sales rep. We try to make it to where the consumer gets a deal but the business owners still make some coin. A win-win so to speak.

Now, to show you all some love I've set up a 15% discount promo code that can be used until 1/31/12. It's off your total purchase. Put this in upon check out: FWMETROJACKSONVILLE

Best wishes to everyone and Happy New Year,

Dustin Lake
Merchandising Sales Manager / Senior Sales Rep
Folio Weekly