Historic Savannah: A Destination, Not A Pass-Through

[thelakelander]

Although small, EWC is expanding with an urban footprint along Kings Road and is collaborating with COJ to develop a neighborhood park for New Town. They have around 800 students and plan to increase that number to 1500 or so in the next couple of years. With good design, whatever they do will be a huge benefit to the surrounding distressed community, which is only one mile west of downtown.

[JaxNative68]

I lived in Savannah from 87-92 and loved every year of it.  A majority of the city then is not what it was is now.  The locals hated SCAD and the downtown historic area what the murder capital per capita of the US.  If only Jax could put forward the progressive thinking the City of Savannah has used to turn their city around in the last fifteen years, we too could be another southern waterfront gem of a city.  Do our city leaders have it in them?

I must admit that Savannah owes a great bit of gratitude to Richard G. Rowan & Paula S. Wallace, the co-founders of SCAD.  What that college has done for the city is insurmountable.

Can Jacksonville become a destination instead of being a pass-through?

[tufsu1]

agreed...I first visited Savannah in 1995 and wasn't that impressed...there were many derelict and rundown buildings....SCAD has led the charge in the city's renaissance.

[fieldafm]

JU is stagnant and does not seem to do much for the community

JU has increased enrollment every year since 2004 and is in the midst of their biggest capital improvement campaign in three decades.  If not doing much for the community doesn't count the MSRI(the best thing to happen to the St Johns River since water) or the niche they have carved out regarding adult learning opportunities... then I guess you're right.  BTW, JU's engineering school has a dual enrollment program with Georgia Tech, in the holiest of all cities that is Atlanta.

I think Jacksonville can form a partnership with Saint Augustine like the partnership Atlanta/GA has with Savannah

I'm curious as to what exactly do they have in the way of 'partnerships'? (Besides the state giving money to the port).  They are 4 hours away from each other. 

That school has really been the largest catalyst of the rebirth of historic Savannah as a destination.

Agreed in the sense of place aspect that is the historic Savannah.  Savannah economically benefits greatly from the port.

[duvaldude08]

Although small, EWC is expanding with an urban footprint along Kings Road and is collaborating with COJ to develop a neighborhood park for New Town. They have around 800 students and plan to increase that number to 1500 or so in the next couple of years. With good design, whatever they do will be a huge benefit to the surrounding distressed community, which is only one mile west of downtown.

I agree Lake. With Glover taking over as President, I think we should expect some good things coming from EWC. Glover is deticated to getting their act cleaned up. Their supposed to be expanding with some new degree programs and I keep hearing they are finally going to build a football stadium.

[thelakelander]

I attended a meeting last month where Glover announced that they were getting ready to break ground on a new classroom building along Kings Road. Its going to house a new degree program and a JSO substation. The recent streetscape through there also turned out nice.

[duvaldude08]

I attended a meeting last month where Glover announced that they were getting ready to break ground on a new classroom building along Kings Road. Its going to house a new degree program and a JSO substation. The recent streetscape through there also turned out nice.

Yeah for the criminal justice program. There was another that they mentioned but the program escapes me at the moment.

[simms3]

JU is stagnant and does not seem to do much for the community

JU has increased enrollment every year since 2004 and is in the midst of their biggest capital improvement campaign in three decades.  If not doing much for the community doesn't count the MSRI(the best thing to happen to the St Johns River since water) or the niche they have carved out regarding adult learning opportunities... then I guess you're right.  BTW, JU's engineering school has a dual enrollment program with Georgia Tech, in the holiest of all cities that is Atlanta.

Yea I am allowed to mention other cities, and Atlanta is not the only city I mention consistently.  I happen to live here.  Also, JU has an engineering school?  Anyway, it's hard to make a large, discernible impact when you have 3,000 students (barely expanding - I looked at acquiring a rental community nearby and spoke with the scool on expansion plans) and a minimal endowment.  I know it's a good school, and many locally influential people have come out of it, but it does not do what other urban schools do in terms of economic impact.

I think Jacksonville can form a partnership with Saint Augustine like the partnership Atlanta/GA has with Savannah

I'm curious as to what exactly do they have in the way of 'partnerships'? (Besides the state giving money to the port).  They are 4 hours away from each other. 

The port benefits Atlanta at least if not more than it actually benefits Savannah - gasp!  Also, SCAD has two campuses.  Also there is a movement of people, goods, and ideas between Atlanta and Savannah and there have been for 20 years.  The relationship between companies and people in the two cities is very collaborative and in terms of infrastructure, the state is trying to connect the two cities in as direct and efficient a manner as possible because of the constant flow of goods and people.  Georgia Tech even had a small campus there (recently closed as there was no point).  They may be 4 hours apart, but the two cities benefit each other much more than Saint Augustin and Jacksonville benefit each other.

That school has really been the largest catalyst of the rebirth of historic Savannah as a destination.

Agreed in the sense of place aspect that is the historic Savannah.  Savannah economically benefits greatly from the port.

[tufsu1]

please simms...there is a movement of people, goods, and ideas between Atlanta and Jacksonville too...and clearly between Jacksonville and St. Augustine (since they're in the same metro area).

so what's your point?

[fieldafm]

and Atlanta is not the only city I mention consistently

That's news to everyone else here

, JU has an engineering school? 

I typed too fast.. they have(or at least had as I was in it) a dual enrollment with Georgia Tech's engineering school.

The port benefits Atlanta at least if not more than it actually benefits Savannah - gasp!

I still don't see what partnerships you are talking about... the Port of Jacksonville benefits Kansas City b/c goods flow there in large numbers from Jacksonville, but that isn't necessarily a 'partnership'

I'm genuinely curious as to what you mean.

St Augustine is a very, very small city with very little economic activity outside of tourism.  Savannah has an extremely large port and gets a tremendous amount of money from the state for the port's capital improvement needs.  Something Jaxport gets very little of from the state and virtually nothing from the city.

[Fallen Buckeye]

I've noticed that in much of the south, most cities that are real cities & places that you actually enjoy being in are the historic ones. Savannah, Charleston, New Orleans, etc. Since they kept that old pedestrian-friendly infrastructure, improved on it & didn't go too sprawl-crazy, it's really worked out to their advantage in the 21st century in a number of ways, transit included.

The sad part is, Jacksonville could have been one of those great ones. We certainly had all of the right ingredients. But I fear that too much damage has been done to the historic fabric & too much needless sprawl has happened for it to ever become that.

I think that even if historic preservation were ramped up in Jax that we would still have a much different character than any of the cities you mentioned. We're a bigger city than either Charleston or Savannah, and when I think of great big cities I think numerous, cool neighborhoods each with different characters.  I think our best case scenario is to have a dense, modern downtown surrounded by neighborhoods with varied, distinct characters. With that in mind, I think that there is still a lot of interesting building stock still standing in Springfield. Then Riverside, San Marco and Ortega all have interesting historic characters and are in good shape. Our problem really is that these places with historic character exist as islands because downtown is in such bad shape. When we are able to these great neighborhoods together, we'll have that great city that attracts people's attention. And how do we do that? Well, we talk about on here ad nauseaum: smart public policy and making the right investments in ourselves. (Which includes preservation of historic building stock)

[simms3]

and Atlanta is not the only city I mention consistently

That's news to everyone else here

, JU has an engineering school? 

I typed too fast.. they have(or at least had as I was in it) a dual enrollment with Georgia Tech's engineering school.

The port benefits Atlanta at least if not more than it actually benefits Savannah - gasp!

I still don't see what partnerships you are talking about... the Port of Jacksonville benefits Kansas City b/c goods flow there in large numbers from Jacksonville, but that isn't necessarily a 'partnership'

I'm genuinely curious as to what you mean.

St Augustine is a very, very small city with very little economic activity outside of tourism.  Savannah has an extremely large port and gets a tremendous amount of money from the state for the port's capital improvement needs.  Something Jaxport gets very little of from the state and virtually nothing from the city.

Well I'm sorry you can't see clearly and I'm sorry you have a chip on your shoulder against me.  Saint Augustine is the county seat for about 200,000 people, slightly less than the population of metro Savannah.  Good luck in life.

[simms3]

please simms...there is a movement of people, goods, and ideas between Atlanta and Jacksonville too...and clearly between Jacksonville and St. Augustine (since they're in the same metro area).

so what's your point?

What's the movement of goods between Jax and Savannah?  St. Augustine's CVB budget is substantially higher than all of Jacksonville's, if I'm not mistaken, and people from all over visit, failing to even step foot in our city.  People in that area do come up to Jax to work, but there is not a symbiosis like that between Savannah and Atlanta.  Culturally and economically there is a very strong bond between these two cities that is hard to match.  I see it because I live and experience it every day.  It's not the same in Jacksonville, and my only suggestion was for the region to find a way to better integrate within itself.  Orlando and Tampa share a strong bond.  Where is Jacksonville's?

edit: changed to "St. Augustine's" CVB

[fieldafm]

I'm genuinely curious as to what you mean.

I was actually asking a question

I used to live in Atlanta, and I didn't know of anyone that travelled to Savannah for work. 

I really don't see where you are going with this, and am genuinely curious.

What's the movement of goods between Jax and Savannah?

Substantial b/w the movement of goods on rail(Jax has the rail hub, so if it leaves Savannah on rail, it usually comes here) and b/w short line shippers(who move smaller loads of containers from Savannah to Jax). 

And b/c you want to be a smartass about it, if you can't honestly see that you use the word 'Atlanta' in 2/3 of your posts and refuse to acknowledge nor laugh at yourself even occassionally for doing so, then maybe you should take your own advice kiddo.   
To quote:

Good luck in life.

[Tacachale]

Our college situation still leaves a lot to be desired, but it's one area that's on a major upswing. I believe JU is turning itself around. EWC has some major issues to say the least, but they're on the right track. If anyone can do it it's Nat Glover. As for community colleges, we have one of the biggest and best in the state right here in FSCJ and they have serious potential to possitively impact downtown. And I'm very proud to be part of what's happening at UNF. The progress over the last 10 years has been wonderful. All told this is an exciting time for higher ed in North Florida and the impact on the whole region will be substantial.