The Jacksonville Jaguars

[duvaldude08]

The real problem here is that the ticket prices are too cheap by NFL standards....once attendance stabilizes, ticket prices will be raised...way before they remove the tarps.

Wouldn't basic economics suggest though that the tickets are actually overpriced for this specific market? I'm not saying the Jags need to rush out and lower ticket prices, but when quantity supplied far outweighs quantity demanded at the current asking price, raising ticket prices will only further lower demand. I do agree though that increased ticket prices should be in the team's list of 5 year goals, but only if there is an increase in demand to warrant it.

See I think the opposite. I think it should be determined on how the economy is doing. The real reason people slacked on buying ticket in recent years is because no one could afford them. I know a few people who had to drop their season tickets because they just couldnt afford it anymore. I think once the economy rebounds, we can slowly start raising ticket prices again. And I think attendance has already leveled out for now. Weve averaged around 62,000-63,000 two seasons.

[Wacca Pilatka]

Ahhhhh touch you nose Wakka, touch your nose  But seriously its a gospel group

Hope I'll hear you sing sometime. 

I always sound like a frog after Jaguar games and can't sing a note for several days, so I certainly understand why you couldn't lose your voice on Sunday.

[Captain Zissou]

The real problem here is that the ticket prices are too cheap by NFL standards....once attendance stabilizes, ticket prices will be raised...way before they remove the tarps.

Wouldn't basic economics suggest though that the tickets are actually overpriced for this specific market? I'm not saying the Jags need to rush out and lower ticket prices, but when quantity supplied far outweighs quantity demanded at the current asking price, raising ticket prices will only further lower demand. I do agree though that increased ticket prices should be in the team's list of 5 year goals, but only if there is an increase in demand to warrant it.

Yes.  Basic economics would say exactly that.  We should continue to lower prices until the stadium sells out.  Unfortunately a ton of outside interests play into the ticket price, so basic supply and demand principles will never prevail.

[Wacca Pilatka]

Wouldn't basic economics suggest though that the tickets are actually overpriced for this specific market? I'm not saying the Jags need to rush out and lower ticket prices, but when quantity supplied far outweighs quantity demanded at the current asking price, raising ticket prices will only further lower demand. I do agree though that increased ticket prices should be in the team's list of 5 year goals, but only if there is an increase in demand to warrant it.

See I think the opposite. I think it should be determined on how the economy is doing. The real reason people slacked on buying ticket in recent years is because no one could afford them. I know a few people who had to drop their season tickets because they just couldnt afford it anymore. I think once the economy rebounds, we can slowly start raising ticket prices again. And I think attendance has already leveled out for now. Weve averaged around 62,000-63,000 two seasons.

I think you're both right.  We have been selling out the general bowl for two years (though it took some creativity to do so a couple of times this year, due to losing several months' activity with the lockout) and general bowl prices are stunningly cheap compared to most of the rest of the league.  Where we've come up short is with the club seats, especially the upper west side ones that are further away from the field and stare directly at the sun.  And the Jags did cut prices on those, significantly.

[duvaldude08]

What's crazy to think about when looking at these numbers (which are from 2010, obviously) is that if Jacksonville had a football stadium properly scaled to the market size (maybe 58,000 to 61,000 seats), instead of a stadium designed for max capacity one time per year, attendance may have never been the issue that is has been (except in 2009). 60,000 seats might actually produce a sense of scarcity for Jaguars tickets. Is it overly simplistic to suggest that the lion's share of Jaguars attendance woes over the years could be reduced down to the simple fact that the stadium is just too damn big for the market?

The stadium being so big compared to the market size is a well known issue. But taking your argument further you could question whether a facility that is only used 12 times a year is a worthwhile investment to begin with.

To be honest I think the stadium size will be permenately scaled back eventually. It should not have been built so big in the first place. Indy has a bigger market than we do and the stadium is much smaller. I think the city just got a little greedy when building the stadium.

[Tacachale]

Trying to apply basic economics to professional sports (or para-professional college sports) is an exercise in futility. For one thing, sports leagues operate as total monopolies over their product, and for another, they take in vast amounts of public money to operate how they do. If they operated according to the market nothing about them would be the same.

But yes, in comparison to the league we have a very large stadium, especially for our market size. The tarps put it at a normal level, but are even easier to criticize than Indy's piped-in crowd noise. We built the stadium the size we did because we have two well established college football games here every year, both of which are two of the city's biggest annual events. Building a huge stadium for only two events may sound crazy, but I don't think building a smaller stadium for only ten events makes much more sense, especially when you consider we might lose FL-GA if we did that. I think this may be a problem with no solution.

[duvaldude08]

Trying to apply basic economics to professional sports (or para-professional college sports) is an exercise in futility. For one thing, sports leagues operate as total monopolies over their product, and for another, they take in vast amounts of public money to operate how they do. If they operated according to the market nothing about them would be the same.

But yes, in comparison to the league we have a very large stadium, especially for our market size. The tarps put it at a normal level, but are even easier to criticize than Indy's piped-in crowd noise. We built the stadium the size we did because we have two well established college football games here every year, both of which are two of the city's biggest annual events. Building a huge stadium for only two events may sound crazy, but I don't think building a smaller stadium for only ten events makes much more sense, especially when you consider we might lose FL-GA if we did that. I think this may be a problem with no solution.

I thought about the Fl/Ga game too. We should have never made the stadium that big. Im sure they would have agreed to a brand new 65,000 stadium. I think we might have got bullied into agreeing of a stadium that size.

[Tacachale]

Trying to apply basic economics to professional sports (or para-professional college sports) is an exercise in futility. For one thing, sports leagues operate as total monopolies over their product, and for another, they take in vast amounts of public money to operate how they do. If they operated according to the market nothing about them would be the same.

But yes, in comparison to the league we have a very large stadium, especially for our market size. The tarps put it at a normal level, but are even easier to criticize than Indy's piped-in crowd noise. We built the stadium the size we did because we have two well established college football games here every year, both of which are two of the city's biggest annual events. Building a huge stadium for only two events may sound crazy, but I don't think building a smaller stadium for only ten events makes much more sense, especially when you consider we might lose FL-GA if we did that. I think this may be a problem with no solution.

I thought about the Fl/Ga game too. We should have never made the stadium that big. Im sure they would have agreed to a brand new 65,000 stadium. I think we might have got bullied into agreeing of a stadium that size.

The issue isn't whether they'd agree to it, it's whether they'd continue to find it worth playing here if we didn't have such a big stadium. Both of their home stadiums are significantly bigger and even now, despite the size and quality of EverBank Field and the long tradition, there are folks at Georgia who want to quit playing in Jax, or rotate with the Georgia Dome, a much smaller and crappier venue. The reasons for this are frankly pretty silly, but the primary reason they've never moved on it is because they make so much money playing here. That might not be the case if our stadium was smaller.

The Gator Bowl is also one of the largest bowl games, in spite of the nonsense BCS finagling that tries to suck up the best teams and matchups to the BCS bowls. Last year, even with two teams that aren't from close by (Mississippi State and Michigan) it was the 5th best attended out of all the bowls, beating out two BCS bowls. This would certainly not be the case in a smaller stadium.

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400566/garry-smits/2011-01-06/gator-bowl-attendance-tops-two-bcs-bowls

So I don't know that it would have been wiser to build a smaller stadium for 10 Jags games (two of which are pre-season) than to build a larger one that accommodates all the events but might adversely affect the Jags. I think the real question is why the hell does the NFL care more about the percentage of stadium filled than actual attendance? Even when we were experiencing TV blackouts we were never at the bottom in total attendance. The blackouts, which are the source of most of the relocation talk, are an issue entirely of the NFL's making.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Stadium Size and Tarps = Low Hanging Fruit
   We will always be percieved as not being able to sell out our stadium by the GP and the press.  It's an easy storyline that doesn't require any research.  It's a topic that will continue to incite the locals and be derided by the outsiders.  The league, on the other hand, recognizes that our stadium is overbuilt for the size of the city and is the reason the tarps were allowed to begin with.  If we can manage to sell out consistently with our current set-up: Kahn will make money.  That's the bottom line - is the owner profitable.

[Dashing Dan]

Nice !

I thought about you after the game was over. I was like, "well Dan got his wish, Im sure he's happy" LOL It was a great game

I appreciate that.  With a new coach the team is easier for me to support.  Go Jags!

[duvaldude08]

Back to the subject at hand, these guys have a tough week. two back to back games, then they rest for three days and have another. Yesterday was great, but I know think they will be able to play ATL like that. However, if we could even do atleast half of what we did yesterday, and inch past the falcons, I'd be happy. As crappy as the Panthers defense is, they almost beat ATL. So if our defense holds, we have a chance Thursday.

[Wacca Pilatka]

Back to the subject at hand, these guys have a tough week. two back to back games, then they rest for three days and have another. Yesterday was great, but I know think they will be able to play ATL like that. However, if we could even do atleast half of what we did yesterday, and inch past the falcons, I'd be happy. As crappy as the Panthers defense is, they almost beat ATL. So if our defense holds, we have a chance Thursday.

I actually like the way that our defensive line matches up with the Falcons' offensive line.  But we need to see the same kind of offensive output as we had on Sunday to have a shot, and Youboty and Rutland will have their hands full with the ATL receivers.

[duvaldude08]

Has anyone heard from Del Rio? Has he picked his face up yet? 

[Wacca Pilatka]

Has anyone heard from Del Rio? Has he picked his face up yet? 

There should be a Jerry Jones joke in there somewhere too

[duvaldude08]

Has anyone heard from Del Rio? Has he picked his face up yet? 

There should be a Jerry Jones joke in there somewhere too

Omg yes! Jerry Jones looked like he was going to cry! That was hard to take in though. Im not a fan of the cowboys or Gaints and I was like, " Wooww. Really?" LOL On a side note, I think tide in the AFC turning and this will once against be a tough divison. With that being said, the Colts have a long road ago. The Texans, Titans and Jags will soon be playing light out football and the Colts are DEAD.