Demolitions in Springfield: the facts

[ChriswUfGator]

Chris, in your rather long post, you were unfortunately, mixing us up and responded to my post by castigating Miss Fixit in my stead.  While I might like that (she's young and beautiful after all) I'm not too sure she would.

To both of you, Chris and Stephen, it was not my intention to be an apologist for the actions of SPAR about old houses.  I don't wear blinders.  I've taken Louise deSpain and others in SPAR (Gerry Troy, Mac Bissette and others) to task on many occasions about the old houses in the 7 years I have lived in Springfield, not that it did any good. 

Chris, I don't know how you got the idea that I disliked you,  I read all your posts. How else would I know what they are about?   If I chose not to, it wouldn't take a gun to my head, as you suggested to Miss Fixit, to make me not read them.  Not sure why you don't think I can disagee with you without disliking you.  I thought I was civil about it.  I'd take my post down since my intent was not to cause you grief, but it's been quoted so many times in the last few hours, there would be little point in it.  So please accept my apology for offending you instead.

I'm tired of fighting.  Don't want to fight with you. Don't want to fight with Stephen.  Tired of fighting SPAR. Hope to see improvement in that organization soon or I'll have to seriously rethink my membership.  Hope to proactively fight for our remaining old houses. If I didn't care so much about them, I'd stop that too.

Miss Fixit made herself look like an ass and thoroughly deserved it, there is no misunderstanding on that one.

Though I quoted your post instead of hers by mistake. So it would be fair to say I accidentally castigated you in her stead. I've had a helluva cold this week, I'm a little off my game. You'll have to excuse me on that. But none of that changes any of the facts or the issue, does it? What the SPAR crowd has done, and continues to do today, is damaging. This isn't some past-tense ancient history, it's still occurring. If you, or Miss Fixit, feel the need to defend or defuse on SPAR's behalf, which you both were indeed doing, then be prepared to face the inevitable result, because no sooner will you have clicked the "post" button than that group will do something so abhorrent it makes you look like a total ass for trying.

It's not your fault what's happening with the mothballing legislation, you may not even have known about it. But when you come out with these "forgive and forget" missives that are woefully premature, given that group's ongoing behavior, this is really just the inevitable result. You'd be very well served to adopt the realistic view the rest of us have, and replace that blind faith with a wait and see attitude.

[ChriswUfGator]

That's it, Debbie...too many others think that just because others see things differently, and/or disagree, that it means they dislike the person posting...which generally, isn't the case. I know for a fact that both you, and Miss Fixit are far from the kind of people that simply take spar at their word. We've all been around long enough, we've all seen what spar has done in the past and none of us have blinders on. It's just reached the point, everyone knows the truth, and it's become tiring to continue keep discussing it...the old beating a dead horse stance. Just because we've reached the point that it feels (to us) that it no longer feels necessary to continually bringing up the past in order to educate others...like I said, we all know the truth about spar. I simply don't feel the need to insult others for having a different outlook, nor do I feel that because someone has a differing opinion of spar, that they're wrong. 

Oddly enough, even though it may not appear...we're all basically on the same page when it comes to lack of trusting spar. I know that I'm in a wait and see mode, have been for quite some time...I would like to feel optimistic, I would like to believe that spar sincerely has taken on a new found desire to do what's right for the community of which it's supposed to be serving...but because of their history, and because of the loss of trust, I wait to see. Proof of sincerity is to be proven, and they must indeed, prove themselves worthy of my trust.

Even with the newer board members, there's cause for concern...when one had taken down a historic house. The fact that I get along with this neighbor does not mean that I accept the 'reason' for it being taken down. New board members does not always equal new leadership or a new and improved outlook on what's best for the community. Time will tell.

Oh come on...

Yes, I know, you've advised that you will not shut up. I just need to start ignoring you like everyone else does.

you certainly seem to be one of the most bitter, singularly focused individuals I have encountered

your stories are old and tired; you never seem to have anything new to say.

At this point, people who have nothing better to do than complain about SPAR and Springfield are more harmful to Springfield than SPAR is.

Instead of recycling the past ad nauseum, why not find out what’s going on currently and form an opinion about that?

I don't have any persecution complex, Springfielder, nor do I get defensive when someone has a different view.

Those two, especially Miss Fixit, made this personal. Not me.

It's hardly my fault her effort backfired, is it? Given her profession, she knows better than to a poke a beehive before she knows all the facts, but she did so anyway. That was her choice. And she certainly chose her own words.

The record speaks for itself.

About the dead horse;

There may or may not be any point in beating a dead horse, but it's not going to hurt the horse much either, is it?

Of course, I think the record also speaks for itself on this one. Because the horse isn't really dead at all, given that certain SPAR members are assisting Schellenberg with repealing the mothballing legislation because of nothing more than sour grapes with neighbors, and engaging in some misguided attempt to cover-up or downplay the number of demolitions. The extent of the undermining just became known this week, and still hasn't been openly discussed. Though Stephen has now publicly identified the traitor. So it's hardly ancient history. Whether this is the last kick of a dying horse, or whether it's more of the same remains to be seen. SPAR elections are scheduled for October, let's see if the new faces bring change.

But like I've said all along, the jury's still out.

[iloveionia]

Well, I was rather upset that some contingencies had to be made to get mothballing through: removal of a 450 number and 5 to 3 years. But you fold to make something happen. The people speaking and fighting for mothballing were the same like-minded folks working together for preservation for the last year.

Personally I was willing to sell my soul to make mothballing happen, however fighting against the very forces who are meant to protect our homes is appalling. There are some things I just don't care about, people or entities will continue to get in the way of saving the houses unfortunately. I can't control that, but I can control how I respond to that: work harder and with more passion.

I can't bring back the hundreds of houses that are gone. Blame Spar, blame Louise, blame HPC, blame code, blame the community. Yup, they are all at fault. Personally, my time is better spent helping the live horses, not beating the dead ones. There is too much that still must be done in the community. First is stopping Schellenburg. Second getting folks into the mothballing program so the houses can be saved and restored. Third is supporting the growth of Main Street. Fourth is maintaining 2 and 3.

While I do care what Spar does and becomes (or doesn't) it's not going to effect saving the houses. Make it more challenging? Yup.  But such is the way then.

[Miss Fixit]

After spending yesterday in Gainesville surrounded by gorgeous coeds (and some beautiful historic homes, too) it was good to get up this morning and see Gloria, Stephen and Debbie's lovely comments about me!  I feel like bursting into one of Natalie Wood's solos from West Side Story.

But this thread was supposed to be about demolitions, not me, so it's way past time to change the subject.

HPC has worked diligently to review what has happened over the past 25+ years since Springfield was named a National Historic District. 
I don't think anyone on this board would disagree that 100 demolitions would have been far too many, and that more than 500 is an atrocity.  I don't think anyone on this board disagrees that the neighborhood "preservation" organization is in a variety of ways responsible for the magnitude of that number.

I have stated that I believe the current board of that organization is trying to move in a new direction.  That doesn't mean I'm any less appreciative of the hard work that Gloria and Debbie and Nicole Lopez and others have done to bring attention to our demolition problem and to otherwise improve our still beautiful and still historic neighborhood.   If they just sat around and complained about SPAR and the city instead of actually organizing and taking action, where would we be now? 

We need to keep working, not waste time arguing about whether there were 300 demolitions or 500 or more.  We need to figure out how to raise money to save the houses that are left.   We need more of the people who don't like what they've seen happen in the neighborhood over the past 25 years to join in and do something positive, something tangible, to help.

[ChriswUfGator]

After spending yesterday in Gainesville surrounded by gorgeous coeds (and some beautiful historic homes, too) it was good to get up this morning and see Gloria, Stephen and Debbie's lovely comments about me!  I feel like bursting into one of Natalie Wood's solos from West Side Story.

But this thread was supposed to be about demolitions, not me, so it's way past time to change the subject.

HPC has worked diligently to review what has happened over the past 25+ years since Springfield was named a National Historic District. 
I don't think anyone on this board would disagree that 100 demolitions would have been far too many, and that more than 500 is an atrocity.  I don't think anyone on this board disagrees that the neighborhood "preservation" organization is in a variety of ways responsible for the magnitude of that number.

I have stated that I believe the current board of that organization is trying to move in a new direction.  That doesn't mean I'm any less appreciative of the hard work that Gloria and Debbie and Nicole Lopez and others have done to bring attention to our demolition problem and to otherwise improve our still beautiful and still historic neighborhood.   If they just sat around and complained about SPAR and the city instead of actually organizing and taking action, where would we be now? 

We need to keep working, not waste time arguing about whether there were 300 demolitions or 500 or more.  We need to figure out how to raise money to save the houses that are left.   We need more of the people who don't like what they've seen happen in the neighborhood over the past 25 years to join in and do something positive, something tangible, to help.

Gainesville is my old college stomping grounds, beautiful city.

There comes a certain point when one must realize that a reoccurring problem must have a cause. The cause is generally not the person who merely discovers the problem, or points out that it exists at all. The cause is the cause. Focusing your ire on those persons uselessly shoots the messenger. Messengers who, in this situation, are actually on your side. The reality of life being what it is, you can't please everyone all the time. Your efforts and vision for the neighborhood are not shared by some. While I understand your desire to heal and move forward, being overly protective of those who do not share your vision, which I think we can all agree is the correct vision, may serve to undermine your own efforts.

While I understand that you are approaching an entity with pre-existing municipal recognition and ties, and while it may seem easier to incorporate that existing framework to serve your efforts, I think in certain situations very poor estimations are being made of exactly what portion of that leftover framework is actually compatible with your efforts, and/or is actually willing to help. Or even to not hurt.

There is very little ethically worth doing that would not, or should not, withstand being revealed in the light of day. Believe it or not, I anxiously await the day when I will have nothing further to say about SPAR. Unfortunately, just when the last thing settles down, another crops up. But I'm not Schellenberg. And I'm not helping him. I'm not Chris Farley. Or Bill Hoff. Their actions are not mine, and I do not create them. There have indeed been 532 demolitions, that is the correct number. There is no sense in arguing, and nor will I argue, over whether I will speak about it. Because I will. It needs to be said. Nor am I doing anything improper or unhelpful simply by turning on the light switch. So maybe we can put somewhat more effort into not shooting the messenger in the future?

We all have the same goal here. And believe it or not, I may actually know what I'm doing.

[Springfielder]

After spending yesterday in Gainesville surrounded by gorgeous coeds (and some beautiful historic homes, too) it was good to get up this morning and see Gloria, Stephen and Debbie's lovely comments about me!  I feel like bursting into one of Natalie Wood's solos from West Side Story.

But this thread was supposed to be about demolitions, not me, so it's way past time to change the subject.

HPC has worked diligently to review what has happened over the past 25+ years since Springfield was named a National Historic District. 
I don't think anyone on this board would disagree that 100 demolitions would have been far too many, and that more than 500 is an atrocity.  I don't think anyone on this board disagrees that the neighborhood "preservation" organization is in a variety of ways responsible for the magnitude of that number.

I have stated that I believe the current board of that organization is trying to move in a new direction.  That doesn't mean I'm any less appreciative of the hard work that Gloria and Debbie and Nicole Lopez and others have done to bring attention to our demolition problem and to otherwise improve our still beautiful and still historic neighborhood.   If they just sat around and complained about SPAR and the city instead of actually organizing and taking action, where would we be now? 

We need to keep working, not waste time arguing about whether there were 300 demolitions or 500 or more.  We need to figure out how to raise money to save the houses that are left.   We need more of the people who don't like what they've seen happen in the neighborhood over the past 25 years to join in and do something positive, something tangible, to help.

So, what am I, chopped liver? Just kidding...but you know I'm supportive of you and all you've done for Springfield and continue to do

[strider]

For about three and a half decades, SPAR and now SPAR Council has erred in the name of exclusivity.  Every decade has ended the same.  Given two paths to "success", one right and one wrong, SPAR and more recently SPAR Council has invariably chosen the wrong path.  I see no one on the "new" board that makes me believe that the history that is SPAR/ SPAR Council will result in positive change today.  I see a couple that will try, but have seen this play before.

The analogy of beating a dead horse only works if the horse is really dead ...

That said, those of you who wish to be optimistic certainly have that right.  As does those of us who prefer the more ... darker ...  approach.