Skyway Could Be Torn Down.....In 2036!

[thelakelander]

This is what I've been saying. If JTA does some rescheduling so that buses, skyway, and/or streetcar meet up at connection stops, transfering will be easy and painless.

I agree. I think JTAs entire transit network should be revamped ASAP.

[Keith-N-Jax]

^^ Right even if Buses stop at stations it really still doesnt go anywhere it needs to. I just wish the talk would stop until something actually being done. WE all know JTA, COJ,etc can talk and run studies.

[tufsu1]

...and data shows that there is virtually no dimunition in ridership with two-seat rides (one transfer) when the waiting time is minimal.

ChrisWUFGator has set a high bar today for references.   

Have you got one that backs this claim?

I'd be interested to see this too.

Ocklawaha pretty much wrote the book on light rail, and he seems to think shorthaul intracity passengers begin to drop off after 1 transfer.

agreed...a 2-seat ride is one transfer...anything more than that and ridership potential drops significantly.

btw....most transit syetsms (big city and cmall) are primarily comprised of what are called captive riders...choice riders rarely make up more than 1/3 of passengers....so trying to compete with the automobile for speed/time is not so important.

So the big thing needed for transit to be successful in Jax. is for it to be a major money saver over the automobile, which requires the price of gas and/or parking to be higher.

[iMarvin]

This is what I've been saying. If JTA does some rescheduling so that buses, skyway, and/or streetcar meet up at connection stops, transfering will be easy and painless.

I agree. I think JTAs entire transit network should be revamped ASAP.

Definitely. I just don't see JTA doing it.

[Dashing Dan]

Ok. The number I quoted was from the first quarter 2011, so hopefully they'll meet their goal soon. What are they doing to increase ridership?

TOD at outlying stations, a new station with a park and ride lot along a major perpindicular highway, marketing, etc

According to this article the Music City Star had a record month in June 2011, with nearly 27,000 riders, or about 1,285 riders per weekday.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110824/WILSON/308190095/Music-City-Star-seeks-more-funding

I almost forgot - the Nashville mayor and the MPO are heavily committed to regional public transportation.

[peestandingup]

This is what I've been saying. If JTA does some rescheduling so that buses, skyway, and/or streetcar meet up at connection stops, transfering will be easy and painless.

I agree. I think JTAs entire transit network should be revamped ASAP.

Definitely. I just don't see JTA doing it.

Which is why this discussion is probably a waste of time & in reality is just a handful of guys arguing on a message board.

You can't do transit in Jacksonville without JTA touching it in some way, and everything they touch turns to crap. And I haven't heard anything about restructuring them, so that there crapfest that is public transit in Jax will likely continue for decades.

[thelakelander]

The gas tax is about to expire. There will be major changes that JTA won't be able to avoid.

[iMarvin]

This is what I've been saying. If JTA does some rescheduling so that buses, skyway, and/or streetcar meet up at connection stops, transfering will be easy and painless.

I agree. I think JTAs entire transit network should be revamped ASAP.

Definitely. I just don't see JTA doing it.

Which is why this discussion is probably a waste of time & in reality is just a handful of guys arguing on a message board.

You can't do transit in Jacksonville without JTA touching it in some way, and everything they touch turns to crap. And I haven't heard anything about restructuring them, so that there crapfest that is public transit in Jax will likely continue for decades.

The gas tax is about to expire. There will be major changes that JTA won't be able to avoid.

The gas tax is definitely going to affect JTA. They would be wise to prepare for it. Cut costs, increase revenue, try to do more with less. If they keep things going like they are now, that gas tax won't be renewed.

[thelakelander]

What should be considered is fiscal costs and ROI.

What's the time period that you start judging your ROI?

I'd probably start right off the bat by identifying my overall goal and then evaluating each mode on it's potential to get me there.  That means capital costs, annual O&M costs, economic development potential, ridership capacity, etc. will all play roles that will be judged from study time to a natural life horizon.

And wouldn't the O&M be similar between the skyway and streetcar?

A streetcar's annual O&M would be lower.

It's the costs to build the infrastructure that is the fly in the ointment.

True.  Spending $30 to $40 million/mile for a skyway extension verses $5 to $10 million/mile for a streetcar extension is certainly an area of concern.  However, the visual impact of an elevated structure running down East Bay's historic buildings would also be a concern.  If I'm going to drop the extra millions into something that has less capacity, it better bring me some economic benefits that make the extra costs worth it.

And yes, I think wrapped trains would generate a lot more advertising potential than trolley signs.

Trolleys and LRT vehicles are typically much larger than skyway vehicles and can operate on the same track infrastructure.  If you want to ad wrap cars, you're better off wrapping them.

[thelakelander]

The gas tax is definitely going to affect JTA. They would be wise to prepare for it. Cut costs, increase revenue, try to do more with less. If they keep things going like they are now, that gas tax won't be renewed.

Years ago, when the $100 million in BJP funds for transit was still around, I advised Mike Blaylock and JTA that they would be wise to get at least one starter transit line up and running ASAP before the gas tax expired.  Without making drastic changes that have to result in better reliable service with what they can utilize now, that gas tax isn't going to get extended.  Now, at least three years have passed, the BJP transit money is gone (in the courthouse most likely) and they are no closer to doing something today than they were then.  2016 will be here before we know it.

[Dashing Dan]

btw....most transit systems (big city and small) are primarily comprised of what are called captive riders...choice riders rarely make up more than 1/3 of passengers....

So the big thing needed for transit to be successful in Jax. is for it to be a major money saver over the automobile, which requires the price of gas and/or parking to be higher.

So unless we make driving much more expensive than it already is now, transit is just for people who will be forced to accept whatever services we choose to make available to them? 

Spare me from this! 

[thelakelander]

I agree.  For transit to work in Jax, it needs to be reliable, efficient and comfortable for riders to use.  That applies to all modes.  Also, I believe we need to realize that many areas of Jacksonville (we're a county for crying out loud) aren't suitable for mass transit service.  I wouldn't mind seeing JTA cut services in some suburban areas in favor of providing better headways in areas that can support frequent mass transit services.

[Dashing Dan]

True.  Spending $30 to $40 million/mile for a skyway extension verses $5 to $10 million/mile for a streetcar extension is certainly an area of concern.  However, the visual impact of an elevated structure running down East Bay's historic buildings would also be a concern.  If I'm going to drop the extra millions into something that has less capacity, it better bring me some economic benefits that make the extra costs worth it.


Where are you getting this estimate of the cost per mile for a skyway extension?  It sounds way too high to me.

[tufsu1]

So unless we make driving much more expensive than it already is now, transit is just for people who will be forced to accept whatever services we choose to make available to them? 

I didn't say that.....but, even with a robust transit syetm, the reality is Jax. will be lucky to have 30% of transit riders be choice riders.

[thelakelander]

Out of town advertising in Toronto....


One would figure this could be done with the skyway right now to generate some extra income to reduce O&M costs.