Skyway Could Be Torn Down.....In 2036!

[thelakelander]

http://www.northfloridatpo.com/images/uploads/general/LRTP_summbrochure.pdf

The map above illustrates where proposed 2035 Long Range Transportation transit projects cross in the urban core.

Green = commuter rail

Blue = BRT

Orange = Streetcar

When speaking of transferring on future corridors, can we at least use this as a reference?  Throughout the thread, it seems that many are talking from lines in their head that aren't planned at this point.  Not that there is anything wrong with that but it does make the transfer talk similar to nailing jello on a wall.

[thelakelander]

Yeah but the Music City Star will be considered successful if it draws 1,500 daily riders.

Although, this is really irrelevant to the discussion at hand, the Music City Star has been in operation for a few years now.  Was there a date that came along with the 1,500 daily riders?  For example, if it gets 1,500 in 2025 instead of 2012 or 2015, will it still be considered a success? 

[thelakelander]

Regarding the LRTP map, it would have been nice to at least show the skyway's path to illustrate how it relates to some of these proposals (such as BRT).

[Dashing Dan]

Yeah but the Music City Star will be considered successful if it draws 1,500 daily riders.

Although, this is really irrelevant to the discussion at hand, the Music City Star has been in operation for a few years now.  Was there a date that came along with the 1,500 daily riders?  For example, if it gets 1,500 in 2025 instead of 2012 or 2015, will it still be considered a success?

I'm not sure about this but my understanding is that they need 1,500 riders in order to be considered viable on a year-to-year basis; in other words, to avoid being shut down.  So I'd say that 1,500 goal is closer to 2012 or 2015.

But I also believe that their current ridership is more than 1,000 a day, and that 1,500 is attainable in the short term.

[thelakelander]

Ok. The number I quoted was from the first quarter 2011, so hopefully they'll meet their goal soon. What are they doing to increase ridership?

[iMarvin]

In regards to transferring, I can't think of one major or second tier metro with any type of transit system where transferring isn't required to get to anywhere in the core city or burbs.  The key is to make it as seamless as possible.

This is what I've been saying. If JTA does some rescheduling so that buses, skyway, and/or streetcar meet up at connection stops, transfering will be easy and painless.

[iMarvin]

http://www.northfloridatpo.com/images/uploads/general/LRTP_summbrochure.pdf

The map above illustrates where proposed 2035 Long Range Transportation transit projects cross in the urban core.

Green = commuter rail

Blue = BRT

Orange = Streetcar

When speaking of transferring on future corridors, can we at least use this as a reference?  Throughout the thread, it seems that many are talking from lines in their head that aren't planned at this point.  Not that there is anything wrong with that but it does make the transfer talk similar to nailing jello on a wall.

This is exactly what I have been using. Instead of having the streetcar turn on Bay St, have the skyway continue down Bay St. Have a connection at Newnan and you've connected everything that's planned on that map, but with a different mode. That, IMO, isn't forcing people to ride the system. I also don't see how that one leg would make the streetcar an incomplete system. This improves ridership for the skyway, the streetcar is already going to get good ridership. And then you use the suggestions NRW has made (stopping the buses at certain skyway stations) and you bring up ridership even more and in return the O&M cost lower and you receive all the other benefits that come with higher ridership.

[Keith-N-Jax]

Doesn't every one know the skyway is a failure b/c is was never completed as it should have been? To keep having these discussion is ridiculous as if people will now start ridding it. This city is unbelievable. Calgon take me away.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Let me throw this out there....

Extending the skyway to Jacksonville's Sporting Grounds - from what I've read on this site, the skyway is a laughing point from other transportation people.  It's a CF that has done nothing to help the city from a transportation standpoint.  IF (that's a big if BTW) we extend the skyway to the sporting complexes - not only would we come closer to completing the original proposed system, but think of the visibility it would get nationally for 12 weeks out of the year.  People will still use it for other events than football, but when the Jags are on - we're hitting national markets in a big way.  Think blimp shot from the north with the skyway shuttling people back and forth in the background.  How much would advertisers pay to have their logo on the train during the NFL season?  $500k per car?

Now that's just football.   The Suns are a contender each year for AA ball.  The Sharks are a contender each year for the AFL.  We have other teams that are well known locally and around the country.  There are several events/concerts held each year at the arena.  We might actually get some legitimate uses from Met Park. 

I understand the costs for extending the line are extreme - especially when compared to the cost of streetcar, but in the long run 10-20 years, we could actually turn the 'pelican' that's been hanging around our neck for so long into a boon for the city. 

An extension to the stadium does everything that you've asked.  It connects residential (southbank towers, northbank towers and possibly more from TOD), employment and entertainment (bay street district, sporting complex, city park).

[Keith-N-Jax]

Dont for get we have the Sharks now playing at the Arena.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Dont for get we have the Sharks now playing at the Arena.

The Sharks are a contender each year for the AFL.   

[iMarvin]

Doesn't every one know the skyway is a failure b/c is was never completed as it should have been? To keep having these discussion is ridiculous as if people will now start ridding it. This city is unbelievable. Calgon take me away.

You don't think people will start riding it if the buses stop at the stations? Or if it gets extened to the sports complex? Or San Marco? Or if new developments are clustered around them? I think any of those can make people start riding it.

[thelakelander]

I don't think you can plan it (or any mode) in a vacuum. There are plenty of mass transit systems that serve professional sports facilities across the country, so whether it's a skyway, streetcar or LRT, I don't think you would see a difference in advertising potential. What should be considered is fiscal costs and ROI. If the skyway rates best out of all modes evaluated, then it should be the selected mode.  If it doesn't, it shouldn't be forced because of sentimental value.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

In the world of NRW,

First,

if the buses stop at the stations

Will lead to,

it gets extened to the sports complex

Which in turn causes,

new developments are clustered around them

And end the end,

people start riding it

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

What should be considered is fiscal costs and ROI.

What's the time period that you start judging your ROI?

And wouldn't the O&M be similar between the skyway and streetcar?

It's the costs to build the infrastructure that is the fly in the ointment.

And yes, I think wrapped trains would generate a lot more advertising potential than trolley signs.