Brown's Team Suggests Trolley System in DT; Would It Be Another Skyway?

[comncense]

So this still wouldn't go to the Stadium District?

[tufsu1]

Yeah I don't see how the JTA director can talk about the expense involved in a streetcar given their absurd transportation center proposal.

I think all Blaylock is saying is that infrastructure funds are scarce these days...keep in mind that they've been trying to build pieces of the JRTC for 5+ years and still haven't found any money

[tufsu1]

So this still wouldn't go to the Stadium District?

the first leg of the streetcar system would be Riverside to downtown....there would also be legs up to Springfield and out to the stadium district as well.

The system is included in the 2035 LRTP as cost feasible....with some parts up and running by 2020.

[tufsu1]

What hes doing is sabotaging the project since it didnt come from the Transportation Authority and trying to poison the groundwater with potential supporters.

You know that as well as everyone else does, why masquerade it in some faux pollyanna reframing?

actually I didn't know that...I think if you look back, you'll see that Lakelander also agrees with my interpretation of Blaylock's statement

and btw, the project has come from JTA as well as others....they completed a streetcar pre-feasibility study a few years ago

http://www.jtafla.com/JTAfutureplans/Streetcars/

[Ocklawaha]

Be nice if most of you could repost your comments in the TU. While it probably wouldn't convert the Neanderthals in the community, it would demonstrate that some of the community have evolved. Consider it a mission to help lift our city out of the Jurassic period.

OCKLAWAHA

[rjp2008]

I didn't know Ock was on the transition team! Good news. When this thing happens, they should go ahead and make him the driver and tour guide of it.

In cities like Cincinnati and Norfolk, Va., businesses have moved into areas around streetcars, and in Jacksonville, trolleys could help revitalize the downtown, said Robert Mann, a retired engineer on the transition team.

A riverside route is a good place to start also Phillip Randolph.

[iMarvin]

Yeah, the comments on the TU website are kind of scary. 90% of the people think it would be 'boondoggle' and a 'waste of money'. This, though was by faaaarrrrr, the scariest comment:

"The handfull of people that want to go downtown should buy bikes. The rest of us don't go downtown, don't care about downtown and you are not going to lure us downtown. The drunks, prostitutes, bums, thugs, thieves own downtown. Downtowns are unsafe and dead. Have any of you guys with these great ideas been out to Bartram, St. Johns Town Center, Avondale, San Marco or the Beaches. These are beautiful, clean and safe areas to take your family. Only a fool would load the family up and take them to the filthy stinking downtown. Give me a break. Quit wasting our tax dollars stupid downtown revitilization. It's over. Downtowns are dead. You are living in the past. Wake up. Let it go." quote from rentjax.

This stuff is scary because Jacksonville will never progress with this kind of thinking. I do hope one day that this type of thinking leaves Jacksonville and I will be able to ride a streetcar throughout ALL of the urban core.

[thelakelander]

What hes doing is sabotaging the project since it didnt come from the Transportation Authority and trying to poison the groundwater with potential supporters.

You know that as well as everyone else does, why masquerade it in some faux pollyanna reframing?

actually I didn't know that...I think if you look back, you'll see that Lakelander also agrees with my interpretation of Blaylock's statement

and btw, the project has come from JTA as well as others....they completed a streetcar pre-feasibility study a few years ago

http://www.jtafla.com/JTAfutureplans/Streetcars/

The part I didn't like about the comment is it really has no place regarding this particular topic.  The funding mechanism for this project can't be shifted to port improvements.  To bring port talk and infrastructure funding problems into the discussion makes it sound as if money is coming from taxpayers and being taken away from other needs, which is not true.

The real way it works is if the community in this particular mobility zone doesn't want this particular project, then the other options for the fee they generate are to use them on commuter rail or roadway widening in this zone.  Anyone up for widening Park Street or Riverside Avenue to 4 or 6 lanes or blasting a new highway through historic neighborhoods?  If so, that's going to cost you a lot more than a context sensitive mass transit based solution.  If interested in leaving things status quo and doing nothing, that means the money generated from development in this particular area would then be shifted to transportation projects in other areas of town.  Who really wants money generated in their side of town to deal with their transportation issues, shifted to build more highways in Mandarin or near Cecil Field?

[Ocklawaha]

What hes doing is sabotaging the project since it didnt come from the Transportation Authority and trying to poison the groundwater with potential supporters.

You know that as well as everyone else does, why masquerade it in some faux pollyanna reframing?

actually I didn't know that...I think if you look back, you'll see that Lakelander also agrees with my interpretation of Blaylock's statement.

You are probably unaware of a 12Th hour effort by (guess where this came from) RS&H to remove ALL language in the report that mentioned streetcars. The logic was, "We did (stole) the study and that's the end of it, there will be no streetcars in Jacksonville." Add this to Blaylock's statements and you get a whole new perspective. I've been fighting this mostly alone since I first proposed it in 1980, and I have ZERO confidence that they will encourage or even play fair.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Yeah, the comments on the TU website are kind of scary. 90% of the people think it would be 'boondoggle' and a 'waste of money'. This, though was by faaaarrrrr, the scariest comment:

"The handfull of people that want to go downtown should buy bikes. The rest of us don't go downtown, don't care about downtown and you are not going to lure us downtown. The drunks, prostitutes, bums, thugs, thieves own downtown. Downtowns are unsafe and dead. Have any of you guys with these great ideas been out to Bartram, St. Johns Town Center, Avondale, San Marco or the Beaches. These are beautiful, clean and safe areas to take your family. Only a fool would load the family up and take them to the filthy stinking downtown. Give me a break. Quit wasting our tax dollars stupid downtown revitilization. It's over. Downtowns are dead. You are living in the past. Wake up. Let it go." quote from rentjax.

I'm totally cool with money being generated in specific areas of town going directly back into those areas on projects supported by those particular areas.  Keep DT and surrounding neighborhood tax dollars down here and you'll have no problem finding the cash to improve several quality-of-life issues facing the urban core.

[Bativac]

My bold prediction, based on being a lifelong Jacksonville resident, is that the streetcar will never come to pass.

Okay, let me revise that: it will not come to pass in my lifetime. I'm 32 years old. For the next fifty years the only changes to the Jacksonville transportation system will be the defacto shut down of the Skyway (brought about by gradual reductions in service hours and number of stops, justified by "nobody ever uses the Skyway anyway") and changes in the bus routes, not necessarily for the better. Oh, and I predict a less-than-optimal transportation center will be built. It will house the city buses and only the city buses. It will include a new JTA office. It will cost a quarter of a billion dollars.

[iMarvin]

Yeah, the comments on the TU website are kind of scary. 90% of the people think it would be 'boondoggle' and a 'waste of money'. This, though was by faaaarrrrr, the scariest comment:

"The handfull of people that want to go downtown should buy bikes. The rest of us don't go downtown, don't care about downtown and you are not going to lure us downtown. The drunks, prostitutes, bums, thugs, thieves own downtown. Downtowns are unsafe and dead. Have any of you guys with these great ideas been out to Bartram, St. Johns Town Center, Avondale, San Marco or the Beaches. These are beautiful, clean and safe areas to take your family. Only a fool would load the family up and take them to the filthy stinking downtown. Give me a break. Quit wasting our tax dollars stupid downtown revitilization. It's over. Downtowns are dead. You are living in the past. Wake up. Let it go." quote from rentjax.

I'm totally cool with money being generated in specific areas of town going directly back into those areas on projects supported by those particular areas.  Keep DT and surrounding neighborhood tax dollars down here and you'll have no problem finding the cash to improve several quality-of-life issues facing the urban core.

That's not the scary part. He says "The rest of us don't go downtown, don't care about downtown and you are not going to lure us downtown. The drunks, prostitutes, bums, thugs, thieves own downtown. Downtowns are unsafe and dead." and "Only a fool would load the family up and take them to the filthy stinking downtown. Give me a break. Quit wasting our tax dollars stupid downtown revitilization. It's over. Downtowns are dead. You are living in the past. Wake up. Let it go" This type of thinking is not good. I agree and am fine with money being spent in the areas, but for him to say that we should give up on revitalizing downtown and it's filthy and stinks and there are only thugs, bums, and prostitutes just really makes me kinda scared for the future of Jacksonville because he isn't the only one saying this. I tend to think that most people are happy with Jacksonville the way it is and don't want any change. And then there are some who only want progress and investment in the suburbs. Then you have that VERY small population of people who want downtown Jacksonville to progress  and get invested in ALONG with everywhere else. That's the stuff that's scary.

[Ocklawaha]

Bativac, You are about the same age that I was when I proposed the streetcar 30 years ago, had I given up the fight the first time JTA stomped all over it, you probably wouldn't be reading anything about streetcars in Jacksonville. Take heart my young friend, NEVER SURRENDER - NEVER GIVE UP!

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

iMarvin, I wouldn't worry about this. People say this in every city about downtowns and suburbs.  My advice to those who would like to see downtown revitalized would be to stop worrying about trying to appeal to suburbanites and work on appealing to urbanites.  A quality metro area should have environments that appeal to all and why bother for suburban support if you don't need their money for revitalization (which I believe we don't)?

[thelakelander]

Bativac, You are about the same age that I was when I proposed the streetcar 30 years ago, had I given up the fight the first time JTA stomped all over it, you probably wouldn't be reading anything about streetcars in Jacksonville. Take heart my young friend, NEVER SURRENDER - NEVER GIVE UP!

OCKLAWAHA

I think we're closer than ever.  Five years ago, this wasn't even a topic. My prediction is by the end of this decade, you'll see at least two forms of new rail service operating in or through this city.