Downtown Bars: A History

[thelakelander]

Very interesting couple of posts. My question for the oldtimers is what happened to cause all of these places to close? Also, a lot sound like they were in buildings that have since been demolished. Did the demolition of these structures have something to do with a movement to "purge" the downtown area of its nightlife?

[heights unknown]

Very interesting couple of posts. My question for the oldtimers is what happened to cause all of these places to close? Also, a lot sound like they were in buildings that have since been demolished. Did the demolition of these structures have something to do with a movement to "purge" the downtown area of its nightlife?

I believe so Lakelander; The French Quarter on the corner of church and main and the R&R Lounge, the strip joint on the first floor below the French Quarter was in a building that was demolished, and nothing else was built there; I believe that now is a surface lot. The Mayflower Hotel of course was demolished in the early 1980's to make way for the Southern Bell Building. Hence, Monroe Midyette, nightclub and disco mogul of the 70's and early 80's, had to move the old Producers Night Club, that was on top of the Mayflower, to a new spot inside of the Phillips Highway Mall. The places where most or all of these bars, disco's, and taverns or nightclubs once sit, are either now surface parking lots, and only one of them was demolished (in the building that it was in, the Mayflower), and something meaningful built in its place. I think our old guard civic leaders of the 60's and 70's meant well, and really thought that developers, investors, and others, would immediately come along and, "build it because they will come," however that never happened. None of these bars, nightclubs, etc., would ever had lasted in my opinion, but something could have been done more creatively and more meaningful to and for those buildings that once housed these bars and clubs towards the improvement, betterment, etc. of the urban core and downtown rather than demolishing them right out with no plan or vision, and the subsequent properties sitting idle, blighted, and with no use for decades.

[johncb]

I know its an OLD thread,but Lord ,the memories it brought up ! I remember one night at the French Quarter we were all hanging around in the parking lot after closing and a truck full of rednecks pulled up and started running their mouths and this one transvestite named " Miss TT" took umbrage at their actions,whipped this big old .38 out of her gigantic purse ,and started popping off rounds ! Those boys left half their tread peeling out of there ! Picture a little black queen in gold lame standing in the middle of the street shooting ! Hilarious ! Miss Cleo,Miss TT,Rose,Jean,Theresa Anteya Larika Lakeesh ,Bea,so many old friends long gone,so many memories of good times.
I was a little white middle class burbs baby (15 !) and those girls took me in and protected me and befriended me and never once did me a dirty turn. And the Flamingo ,my God,how many times did my underage ass roll out of there drunker than a hoot owl clinging to the arms of my latest "love" ! Soldiers,dockworkers,businessmen,lawyers,they all went there looking for a trip on the dark side ! But the OP,now there was a legendary bar and my personal favorite. Does anyone remember Dons notorious After parties when the bar closed ? More than once I rolled out of those when the dawn was breaking. Caligula would have blushed at some of the antics in those after parties!
The Downtowner (remember Little Joe,the bartender? ) was another personal favorite,and it assuredly got wide open in there after the sun went down ! Remember the copper covered tables and the wallpaper with nudes ? I used to laugh so hard in there my stomach would hurt the next day. Some batshit crazy yet hilariously funny people ! I think a lot of those places closed because of the landing and the southbank opened up.I had some lovely times in River Rally,Harbormasters,Fat Tuesdays (Oooo,Triple Bypass,yum!) ,but they sure didn't beat the seedy ,seductive bars of my misspent youth.

[heights unknown]

I know its an OLD thread,but Lord ,the memories it brought up ! I remember one night at the French Quarter we were all hanging around in the parking lot after closing and a truck full of rednecks pulled up and started running their mouths and this one transvestite named " Miss TT" took umbrage at their actions,whipped this big old .38 out of her gigantic purse ,and started popping off rounds ! Those boys left half their tread peeling out of there ! Picture a little black queen in gold lame standing in the middle of the street shooting ! Hilarious ! Miss Cleo,Miss TT,Rose,Jean,Theresa Anteya Larika Lakeesh ,Bea,so many old friends long gone,so many memories of good times.
I was a little white middle class burbs baby (15 !) and those girls took me in and protected me and befriended me and never once did me a dirty turn. And the Flamingo ,my God,how many times did my underage ass roll out of there drunker than a hoot owl clinging to the arms of my latest "love" ! Soldiers,dockworkers,businessmen,lawyers,they all went there looking for a trip on the dark side ! But the OP,now there was a legendary bar and my personal favorite. Does anyone remember Dons notorious After parties when the bar closed ? More than once I rolled out of those when the dawn was breaking. Caligula would have blushed at some of the antics in those after parties!
The Downtowner (remember Little Joe,the bartender? ) was another personal favorite,and it assuredly got wide open in there after the sun went down ! Remember the copper covered tables and the wallpaper with nudes ? I used to laugh so hard in there my stomach would hurt the next day. Some batshit crazy yet hilariously funny people ! I think a lot of those places closed because of the landing and the southbank opened up.I had some lovely times in River Rally,Harbormasters,Fat Tuesdays (Oooo,Triple Bypass,yum!) ,but they sure didn't beat the seedy ,seductive bars of my misspent youth.

JCB...wow, I tell you, I wasn't gay, maybe curious or quasi bisexual, but I (and we) had a ball back then. One reason I am replying; I run a private social service agency in Sarasota and Manatee Counties Florida. About 7 years ago, a kid, then 29, came to me for help; his name is Brendon (he is now 37), and after doing an intake on him, he told me he was from Jacksonville, and after further conversation, he told me that he was living with his roommate and close friend; I casually asked, being that he was from Jax, what his friends name was; he said DON STRICKLAND; I remembered a Don Strickland from back in the day who owned the old OP, and later the 3D; and they live here in our area in Bradenton. Brendon still calls and visits me from time to time and keeps in touch; it's a small, small world!

[ChriswUfGator]

So...at no point during what was obviously a 20-year wave of destruction that took Jax from an actual city (read stories above) to a bunch of empty parking lots, did anybody say, hey, wait a minute, this isn't working, let's stop before all we have left is parking lots? It's sad reading this, and knowing what it looks like now.

[johncb]

I know its an OLD thread,but Lord ,the memories it brought up ! I remember one night at the French Quarter we were all hanging around in the parking lot after closing and a truck full of rednecks pulled up and started running their mouths and this one transvestite named " Miss TT" took umbrage at their actions,whipped this big old .38 out of her gigantic purse ,and started popping off rounds ! Those boys left half their tread peeling out of there ! Picture a little black queen in gold lame standing in the middle of the street shooting ! Hilarious ! Miss Cleo,Miss TT,Rose,Jean,Theresa Anteya Larika Lakeesh ,Bea,so many old friends long gone,so many memories of good times.
I was a little white middle class burbs baby (15 !) and those girls took me in and protected me and befriended me and never once did me a dirty turn. And the Flamingo ,my God,how many times did my underage ass roll out of there drunker than a hoot owl clinging to the arms of my latest "love" ! Soldiers,dockworkers,businessmen,lawyers,they all went there looking for a trip on the dark side ! But the OP,now there was a legendary bar and my personal favorite. Does anyone remember Dons notorious After parties when the bar closed ? More than once I rolled out of those when the dawn was breaking. Caligula would have blushed at some of the antics in those after parties!
The Downtowner (remember Little Joe,the bartender? ) was another personal favorite,and it assuredly got wide open in there after the sun went down ! Remember the copper covered tables and the wallpaper with nudes ? I used to laugh so hard in there my stomach would hurt the next day. Some batshit crazy yet hilariously funny people ! I think a lot of those places closed because of the landing and the southbank opened up.I had some lovely times in River Rally,Harbormasters,Fat Tuesdays (Oooo,Triple Bypass,yum!) ,but they sure didn't beat the seedy ,seductive bars of my misspent youth.

JCB...wow, I tell you, I wasn't gay, maybe curious or quasi bisexual, but I (and we) had a ball back then. One reason I am replying; I run a private social service agency in Sarasota and Manatee Counties Florida. About 7 years ago, a kid, then 29, came to me for help; his name is Brendon (he is now 37), and after doing an intake on him, he told me he was from Jacksonville, and after further conversation, he told me that he was living with his roommate and close friend; I casually asked, being that he was from Jax, what his friends name was; he said DON STRICKLAND; I remembered a Don Strickland from back in the day who owned the old OP, and later the 3D; and they live here in our area in Bradenton. Brendon still calls and visits me from time to time and keeps in touch; it's a small, small world!

My God,I long thought Don was dead !!! Hes got to be in his 70s now! He always liked them much younger . Id venture to say 75% of the people I knew in the bad old days are no longer with us,so it really surprises me hes still kicking !

[johncb]

So...at no point during what was obviously a 20-year wave of destruction that took Jax from an actual city (read stories above) to a bunch of empty parking lots, did anybody say, hey, wait a minute, this isn't working, let's stop before all we have left is parking lots? It's sad reading this, and knowing what it looks like now.

Chris,are you new to jax ? I ask that because the city government has always done exactly what they want no matter how much people scream. Im in my 50s,and its never been any different. The people mover is the greatest example of them all.Well,until the courthouse, that is.

[TheCat]

After touring England and most of the continent of Europe, I returned to Jacksonville. The Classics IV, The Bitter Ind., The Second Coming, future members of The Atlanta Rhythm Section and several other rockers like Lynyrd Skynyrd and the Molly Hatchet Band were beginning to eat, sleep and drink rock 'n roll. Other bands like Blackfoot would soon follow. Southern rock was in the womb and Jacksonville was the mother.

great quote from "The Days of Love & Blood" -- I'm going to use it in the Southern Rock thread.

Later, I was in Jacksonville to discover Gregg, Duane and company were crashing above the R&R Liquor Store on Main Street. It was a funky old apartment with nothing but mattresses and music. This was the real beginnings of Southern Rock.

Where on Main Street???

SE corner of Main and Ashley.  I worked there (and other night spots) 1969-71 for the Provost/Renzler Consortium.

Serious card turners frequented the Waldorf Lounge at E Forsyth and Market; and in the back of Pete's Bar at 517 W Bay between the James Hotel and Pete's Pawn.

Let's not overlook Hans Tanzler's role in screwing with Jax nightlife.  On a humorous note, in late 1971, the city council attempted to outlaw topless dancing and the response was the dancers went bottomless.  I spent a couple of weeks frequently visiting the DCJ posting their bail until the council backed off.

As for corruption, over the years the reputations of Tom Heaney and Dorcas Drake have been sanitized.....but you didn't do liquor business or gambling unless you paid someone.

Oh....as far as I'm concerned, Southern Rock didn't take off until the night Ed King ripped the opening riff of Sweet Home Alabama in the Comic Book Club.

Been a great read and y'all take care.

Go on...tell us more about how Tanzler screwed with night life. Was it just banning of topless dancing?

[TheCat]

Court upholds ban on dancing topless in Jacksonville fl (Sarasota herald-tribune)

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1755&dat=19791128&id=5zogAAAAIBAJ&sjid=s2cEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5412,7059524&hl=en

[heights unknown]

So...at no point during what was obviously a 20-year wave of destruction that took Jax from an actual city (read stories above) to a bunch of empty parking lots, did anybody say, hey, wait a minute, this isn't working, let's stop before all we have left is parking lots? It's sad reading this, and knowing what it looks like now.

Yeah Chris; it's a crying shame. It seems that when they started the demolition (derby), it was on to see just how many empty surface lots they could create in downtown Jax. At least they could have panned out a plan for most of those old buildings to save them and renovate and reconstruct them into lofts, apartments, or other type businesses with residential above.

[heights unknown]

I know its an OLD thread,but Lord ,the memories it brought up ! I remember one night at the French Quarter we were all hanging around in the parking lot after closing and a truck full of rednecks pulled up and started running their mouths and this one transvestite named " Miss TT" took umbrage at their actions,whipped this big old .38 out of her gigantic purse ,and started popping off rounds ! Those boys left half their tread peeling out of there ! Picture a little black queen in gold lame standing in the middle of the street shooting ! Hilarious ! Miss Cleo,Miss TT,Rose,Jean,Theresa Anteya Larika Lakeesh ,Bea,so many old friends long gone,so many memories of good times.
I was a little white middle class burbs baby (15 !) and those girls took me in and protected me and befriended me and never once did me a dirty turn. And the Flamingo ,my God,how many times did my underage ass roll out of there drunker than a hoot owl clinging to the arms of my latest "love" ! Soldiers,dockworkers,businessmen,lawyers,they all went there looking for a trip on the dark side ! But the OP,now there was a legendary bar and my personal favorite. Does anyone remember Dons notorious After parties when the bar closed ? More than once I rolled out of those when the dawn was breaking. Caligula would have blushed at some of the antics in those after parties!
The Downtowner (remember Little Joe,the bartender? ) was another personal favorite,and it assuredly got wide open in there after the sun went down ! Remember the copper covered tables and the wallpaper with nudes ? I used to laugh so hard in there my stomach would hurt the next day. Some batshit crazy yet hilariously funny people ! I think a lot of those places closed because of the landing and the southbank opened up.I had some lovely times in River Rally,Harbormasters,Fat Tuesdays (Oooo,Triple Bypass,yum!) ,but they sure didn't beat the seedy ,seductive bars of my misspent youth.

JCB...wow, I tell you, I wasn't gay, maybe curious or quasi bisexual, but I (and we) had a ball back then. One reason I am replying; I run a private social service agency in Sarasota and Manatee Counties Florida. About 7 years ago, a kid, then 29, came to me for help; his name is Brendon (he is now 37), and after doing an intake on him, he told me he was from Jacksonville, and after further conversation, he told me that he was living with his roommate and close friend; I casually asked, being that he was from Jax, what his friends name was; he said DON STRICKLAND; I remembered a Don Strickland from back in the day who owned the old OP, and later the 3D; and they live here in our area in Bradenton. Brendon still calls and visits me from time to time and keeps in touch; it's a small, small world!

My God,I long thought Don was dead !!! Hes got to be in his 70s now! He always liked them much younger . Id venture to say 75% of the people I knew in the bad old days are no longer with us,so it really surprises me hes still kicking !

@ JCB.....no, he's still alive; he hung up his club owner hat and is retired I think from what Brendon told me. What I remember most about him is that he seemed miserable and moody most of the time especially to his employees. Brendon tells me that he is still that way but of course to only those around him. Brendon came over for a visit one day and I took him home, and Don was sitting outside. He's still tall, but heavier (as us all), and his hair is Lillie white. He waved and I spoke, and I told him that I was a patron of his back in the day, and spent many a dollar in his clubs. He laughed. Yes, he lives in Bradenton, Florida; does he know you? Next time I see Brendon, I'll let him know about this thread, these posts, and you.

[heights unknown]

So...at no point during what was obviously a 20-year wave of destruction that took Jax from an actual city (read stories above) to a bunch of empty parking lots, did anybody say, hey, wait a minute, this isn't working, let's stop before all we have left is parking lots? It's sad reading this, and knowing what it looks like now.

Chris,are you new to jax ? I ask that because the city government has always done exactly what they want no matter how much people scream. Im in my 50s,and its never been any different. The people mover is the greatest example of them all.Well,until the courthouse, that is.

JCB...The Downtowner Lounge...was that the one in the basement or cellar in the Ambassador Hotel? That place was wicked. I tried to stay out of there as it seemed that the clientele (during its last and latter years) were really the lowest of the low, but, most of my friends and some of the sailors from the base frequented that lounge. Also, when the old Flamingo closed down, everyone started going to the Downtowner Lounge. There was also another nice lounge in the old hotel, "THE HEART OF JACKSONVILLE." I used to go there to meet decent ladies (decent by my account), every once in a while. What memories, and everything was within walking distance downtown; didn't need no car; in fact, I used to leave my car at home and take the bus downtown and walk (or bar crawl as us sailors called it), from bar to bar. Wow. What memories.

[johncb]

Heights,Im sure that Don wouldn't remember me specifically,I was one of a LONG line of underage twinks Im sure ! I was 15/16 when we were acquainted,and look vastly different now ! Of course being 52 has a lot to do with that ! I was closer to the staff really,Scarlett Butler,FiFi,Ron to name a few. They were more the reason I was invited to the after parties. Its so funny now to think,here I was ,screamingly underaged,hanging out with drag queens and denziens of the night. That's surely wouldn't fly these days,but it was a different world then for sure.
Im rather glad I stumbled onto this thread,Ive thought about people I haven't remembered in 30 years. I think ,because I was so different from the usual suspects ( I went to private school no less!) that I was as unique to them as they were to me ! But I cant stress enough how wonderful most were to me,very protective,very kind. Aids really decimated my friends,so many were gone so quick it still leaves me reeling.

[heights unknown]

Heights,Im sure that Don wouldn't remember me specifically,I was one of a LONG line of underage twinks Im sure ! I was 15/16 when we were acquainted,and look vastly different now ! Of course being 52 has a lot to do with that ! I was closer to the staff really,Scarlett Butler,FiFi,Ron to name a few. They were more the reason I was invited to the after parties. Its so funny now to think,here I was ,screamingly underaged,hanging out with drag queens and denziens of the night. That's surely wouldn't fly these days,but it was a different world then for sure.
Im rather glad I stumbled onto this thread,Ive thought about people I haven't remembered in 30 years. I think ,because I was so different from the usual suspects ( I went to private school no less!) that I was as unique to them as they were to me ! But I cant stress enough how wonderful most were to me,very protective,very kind. Aids really decimated my friends,so many were gone so quick it still leaves me reeling.

You're still here; that should tell you something. So continue to be the nice person that you are (or that you seem to be...I don't know you but it seems you're a decent person, as I also try to be (I hope so)). Just make an impact...not too many decent people left. I didn't know too much about the after dark parties, but I knew that he always had an entourage with him...this was mostly back in the OP days; as he got older, not too many people hung around Don, but I was told that he still had certain people he preferred and that hung around him for whatever reason. It was wild and crazy back then, but we didn't hurt anyone (like they do nowadays), and I loved the house parties (everyone brought some liquor with them and the house it was held at threw the food, and, everyone brought a pot of food, desserts, or snacks), and, after that, everyone headed for the bars...in my circle of friends it could have been straight or whatever, it didn't matter. Miss those days.

[heights unknown]

I know its an OLD thread,but Lord ,the memories it brought up ! I remember one night at the French Quarter we were all hanging around in the parking lot after closing and a truck full of rednecks pulled up and started running their mouths and this one transvestite named " Miss TT" took umbrage at their actions,whipped this big old .38 out of her gigantic purse ,and started popping off rounds ! Those boys left half their tread peeling out of there ! Picture a little black queen in gold lame standing in the middle of the street shooting ! Hilarious ! Miss Cleo,Miss TT,Rose,Jean,Theresa Anteya Larika Lakeesh ,Bea,so many old friends long gone,so many memories of good times.
I was a little white middle class burbs baby (15 !) and those girls took me in and protected me and befriended me and never once did me a dirty turn. And the Flamingo ,my God,how many times did my underage ass roll out of there drunker than a hoot owl clinging to the arms of my latest "love" ! Soldiers,dockworkers,businessmen,lawyers,they all went there looking for a trip on the dark side ! But the OP,now there was a legendary bar and my personal favorite. Does anyone remember Dons notorious After parties when the bar closed ? More than once I rolled out of those when the dawn was breaking. Caligula would have blushed at some of the antics in those after parties!
The Downtowner (remember Little Joe,the bartender? ) was another personal favorite,and it assuredly got wide open in there after the sun went down ! Remember the copper covered tables and the wallpaper with nudes ? I used to laugh so hard in there my stomach would hurt the next day. Some batshit crazy yet hilariously funny people ! I think a lot of those places closed because of the landing and the southbank opened up.I had some lovely times in River Rally,Harbormasters,Fat Tuesdays (Oooo,Triple Bypass,yum!) ,but they sure didn't beat the seedy ,seductive bars of my misspent youth.

Don is quite alive, and ended up being a charming, cultured thoughtful older man.

When he retired and sold Third Dimension, he gave me and John Allen his complete sound system, and a massive collection of hard to find commercial liscensed 1980s music videos designed to be played in 'video bars'.

Very fond of Don actually.

Yes He has mellowed Stephen. I am friends of one of his roommates, and I've been told he still has his moments; a few months back he was sitting in his yard and I spoke to him, I was dropping his roommate Brendon home, and I told him about the old days when I spent a ton of money during my youth in his bars (wild & crazy back then).