Skyway on the Move: An exclusive thread on EXPANSION and IMPROVEMENT!

[tufsu1]

agreed Chris...fact is you could add more cars, but the station platforms are only so long...and you still need to keep a distance between trains...basically you reach max. capacity pretty quick, which is the problem DC metro now has in their downtown tunnel.

[Jason]

I see where there will be benefits of connecting the neighborhoods first, however, my reasoning behind wanting to connect the stadium first is to garner the support of the rest of the Duval population living out in the burbs that will benefit during sporting events.  They will finally see the system as beneficial and start to realize its potential.  With a one way loop around the stadium we could almost run a steady line of max length trains with alternating express routes to the terminus' at the Prime and King's Ave Garage thereby eliminating the need for the busses.  This could also open up some of the stadium's parking lots for development, further enhancing the areas atmosphere.

IMO, once we gain the support of the suburbanites the opportunities will be endless.  

Phase 1B would be to build the consolodated transit center as discussed here that would combine all of our current modes under one roof (Amtrak, Greyhound, Skyway, JTA).  This should probably come before any other system expansions or at least at the same time.

Phase 2 for me would be to connect St. Vincent's to Shands with a streetcar line intersecting the skyway at strategic points.

Phase 3 would be to implement a commuter rail line extending north to connect with the airport's planned transit line at/near RCMP.  That would allow travellers/tourists a true carless experience when visiting downtown Jax or for thos living along the lines that are up and running.

Phase 4A would be a short skyway extension into Brooklyn with a terminus at the Anni Lyttle school.

Phase 4B would be to create a one way San Marco loop that continues the line down under I95 to Nira and around to Baptist/Nemours/Wolfson's and reconnect at Prudential Station.

Phase 5 would be to create a two-way streetcar route up and down the Beaches connecting the north beaches to PVB.

Phase 6 would be to connect the southside of jax and perhaps St. Augustine to the system via commuter rail along the FEC and US1.  This may also be accomplished sooner if a deal with Amtrak can be worked out on the FEC with additional stops.

Phase 7 would be to connect Orange Park via the CSX line.

Phase 8 would be to connect the new beaches line to the system via beach blvd. using a 2 way LRT system.

Phases 9 on would be to continue expansion of the system into the urban core neighborhoods via streetcar.

[iMarvin]

I don't see why so many people want a streetcar here so bad. The skyway NEEDS to be finished before we introduce any new type of rail transit(except for commuter rail). If streetcars are built, the skyway will be DONE. Look at the streetcar map on JTA's website. It's gonna do the job that the skyway should be doing. I understand connecting at logical points and all, but if streetcars are going to the stadium on BAY STREET, or going down RIVERSIDE AVENUE, no one will ride the skyway.

[iMarvin]

Phase 1 Riverside starter line the council approved it.  Now lets show them some support for this bold( In Jacksonville) action.  We need to rally support not pick this apart with how they could have done it differently. 

Do you know where will it go? What streets it will take?

[JeffreyS]

Phase 1 Riverside starter line the council approved it.  Now lets show them some support for this bold( In Jacksonville) action.  We need to rally support not pick this apart with how they could have done it differently.  

Do you know where will it go? What streets it will take?

Phase 1: Kings at St. Vincents taking Riverside Ave maybe oak to Five points.

Residents and destination points along the whole route. Makes 1600 Riverside, Episcopal retirement home and a other apartments into TODs.  It is an Awesome way to prime the pump for transit. Hospital, Publix, homes, Apartments, too many restaurants and night spots to name in our most urban walkable are of town.

[wsansewjs]

Just don't make the Skyway do this...



I think Skyway's current stations need to improve their design, layout flow, create an ecosystem of public/private partnerships, while the Skyway expands into hot active residential areas allow people to actually use itto get to work and back home. In addition, the Skyway should connect directly to the Sport / Entertainment Complex area to its network.

Moooooooo!

-Josh

[iMarvin]

Phase 1 Riverside starter line the council approved it.  Now lets show them some support for this bold( In Jacksonville) action.  We need to rally support not pick this apart with how they could have done it differently.  

Do you know where will it go? What streets it will take?

Phase 1: Kings at St. Vincents taking Riverside Ave maybe oak to Five points.

Residents and destination points along the whole route. Makes 1600 Riverside, Episcopal retirement home and a other apartments into TODs.  It is an Awesome way to prime the pump for transit. Hospital, Publix, homes, Apartments, too many restaurants and night spots to name in our most urban walkable are of town.

Is that set in stone? I think the streetcar should go from St. Vincents on King and the turn right on Park St.

[exnewsman]

Look, there is no point expanding the Skyway anywhere else downtown, until it is first expanded to somewhere people actually live! E.g., Riverside, San Marco, Springfield, etc. The thing already goes to within just a short walk of most places downtown, continuing to add new stops in that area is a waste, and will NOT do anything to increase ridership. To increase ridership, and make the system self-sustaining, you need to connect places people need to go to and from, e.g. business with residential. Otherwise, nobody rides. You can't tell me a new $10mm station at the BOA tower is going to increase ridership, when the existing station in Hemming Plaza is literally two blocks away. The reason it's a failure is that it doesn't connect things that need connecting, e.g. business areas with residential areas with shopping areas. That's the basic formula for intra-city passenger transport folks. We need to do that, first.

Central Station is only 1/2 block from the BOA tower.

[exnewsman]

I agree the park & ride for games would bring a lot of riders

here's the thing...lots of people already use the park & ride lots at the Prime Osborn for games....JTA runs a shuttle bus abouit every 5-10 minutes starting 5 hours before the game...so a Skyway extension to the satdium would just duplicate that service.

And then there's the crush after the game...if anyone has ever ridden public transit after a game in a big city, you know there is a need for extra vehicles waiting....I'm talking about even in full-on subway systems like DC, PHL, and ATL....now imagine how that would work (or not) with the little skyway vehicles.

Absolutely agree with this. The stadium shuttle works just fine so to spend millions to do the same function is not wise. If development comes to the Shipyards, more hotels/condos in the Sports Complex area - then add a Skyway line later.

More to your point TUFSU1 - but this kind of system isn't designed for 20k-50k to use at one time. That's why they have dozens of buses on game day. The money could be better used elsewhere than the Sports Complex - Riverside, Springfield, San Marco. Go to the people I say.

[Tacachale]

I see where there will be benefits of connecting the neighborhoods first, however, my reasoning behind wanting to connect the stadium first is to garner the support of the rest of the Duval population living out in the burbs that will benefit during sporting events.  They will finally see the system as beneficial and start to realize its potential.  With a one way loop around the stadium we could almost run a steady line of max length trains with alternating express routes to the terminus' at the Prime and King's Ave Garage thereby eliminating the need for the busses.  This could also open up some of the stadium's parking lots for development, further enhancing the areas atmosphere.

IMO, once we gain the support of the suburbanites the opportunities will be endless.  

Totally. Whatever the next expansion is, it needs to be something that will increase ridership substantially; without boosting confidence in the skyway, further expenses are going to be an even tougher sell.

[Debbie Thompson]

Idea #1:  Option 1 and Stadium District.  No need for BoA station. Central Station is 1-1/2 blocks away at Bell South Tower.  Do the hotel, APR and the field.  Stations don't have to be bigger, nor the trains, unless ridership warrants it.  They run constantly.  Already have a Riverside Trolley. Don't need to expand above ground tracks at big $$.  If you want to serve Riverside by rail instead, run light rail up Park Street from the Convention Center Station or the Jefferson Station.  Already have San Marco Station. Run light rail on the ground from there.

Idea #2:  Since streetcars and any type of rail is fixed, how about something more flexible?  How about much smaller shuttle buses running at 30 minute intervals on more convenient routes.  When I was young, on the Southside, there were three buses than ran within walking distance of my house.  San Souci on University, 35 Spring Park came up Beney Road, and the Phillips Highway bus went down Barnes Road by Englewood High...at 30 minute intervals.  Now, huge empty buses go by my house every morning.  The downtown buses leave Rosa Parks about 4:55, when most people get off at 5:00.  There are no more buses until 5:55.  Real convenient.

[jandar]

Jason, your phases leave out direct connection between westside/orange park and southside without needing to go through downtown.

As much as you want downtown to flourish, unless you have a direct route between said places, people will still use their cars. Even commuter rail through downtown is slower than a direct car route.

[tufsu1]

As much as you want downtown to flourish, unless you have a direct route between said places, people will still use their cars. Even commuter rail through downtown is slower than a direct car route.

it wouldn't have been had we not widened the I-295 bridge...and now we're adding C/D roads on I-295 and then widening east of the bridge to 8 lanes.....these are the decisions being made!

[Jason]

Jason, your phases leave out direct connection between westside/orange park and southside without needing to go through downtown.

As much as you want downtown to flourish, unless you have a direct route between said places, people will still use their cars. Even commuter rail through downtown is slower than a direct car route.

Express busses would be used to connect the outlying nodes in a more circuitous manner.  I think that DT should be the hub until the rest of the city densifies around the stations in the suburban areas such as Southpoint.  Once that happens then it may make sence to implement a more direct rail connection between the westside/OP and southside. 

[Jdog]

Of the options, my choices would be the San Marco extension and the Stadium extension. 

I'd prefer Five Points over San Marco (I think Five Points is livelier and more youthful, and I also like the long straight, direct shot to the Stadium complex), but I don't think the Skyway was planned to ever get that far -- Five Points / Riverside.  Anybody???