Skyway on the Move: An exclusive thread on EXPANSION and IMPROVEMENT!

[Ocklawaha]

BAY STREET RECONSTRUCTION CONCEPT

OCKLAWAHA

[Tacachale]

FWIW, more goes on at the sports complex than just football games. On top of the vast amount of riders the football games would attract, the Suns play something like 70 home games a year, and draw around 5000 people a night. The arena football team plays at least 8 home games, and draws over 8000 people a night. There are also the various other events at the arena, many of which also draw thousands of people. If - god willing - we can get hockey back in there, there would be even more than that.

There are plenty of people heading down to the sports complex through the year. Whether enough of them would take the skyway if it didn't hit up their neighborhood is a different question.

[ChriswUfGator]

FWIW, more goes on at the sports complex than just football games. On top of the vast amount of riders the football games would attract, the Suns play something like 70 home games a year, and draw around 5000 people a night. The arena football team plays at least 8 home games, and draws over 8000 people a night. There are also the various other events at the arena, many of which also draw thousands of people. If - god willing - we can get hockey back in there, there would be even more than that.

There are plenty of people heading down to the sports complex through the year. Whether enough of them would take the skyway if it didn't hit up their neighborhood is a different question.

It doesn't really matter, the system can serve every non-residential destination from here to China and that still won't do much for ridership. It's like a hallway with 100 exits and no entrance, it still won't have any people in it. You need to connect residential centers with the destination. If I have to drive just to ride a train a short distance, then who isn't just going to drive to the destination and be done with it? If I can walk a couple blocks to the station and then take the train to the destination, then that's another story.

That's what's always missing from these boondoggles when it comes to rail transport in this state, we need to quit designing these short-haul systems that require a car to get to the stations. That's asinine and defeats the whole damn point. Then they can't figure out why nobody rides it.

[Ocklawaha]

ONE TIME...

That's all the convincing anyone needs that has parked around the stadium/arena/ball fields during an event then joined with 10,000-90,000 people trying to leave all at once. They'll be remote parking-Skyway customers, or streetcar (the stadium loop) customers for life.

Add those folks to the EASTSIDE NEIGHBORHOODS that would be directly connected via Skyway to Downtown.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

ANNIE TRANSIT CENTER, This would be connected to 5-Points via 'a grand paseo', plus bus
in addition to two floors of shopping and a theater. The original plan called for the Skyway to cross the Freeway at this point on Roselle St. - Even with the Annie Center there is no reason why a pedestrian bridge or underpass couldn't be fit in from Annie west.







concept design by R.W. Mann, Models by Jason



OCKLAWAHA

[Timkin]

that makes sense

[ChriswUfGator]

If the station could be located in such a way, or else have another station at the end of a spur, that could serve the east side then yeah, that would be great. I agree the park & ride for games would bring a lot of riders, just not the day-in-day-out kind of riders that connecting up residential would bring. It would be busy a day or two a month and then drop off the rest of the time. Maybe make a station at the sports complex, and then continue on across the MLK to serve those residential and industrial neighborhoods too? The solution is clearly an expansion, and I agree with you 100% the stadium should be connected. I just look at the system and from what I can tell its main problem is it connected a bunch of destinations to each other and never connected the people to the destinations. So I look at it and think the very first thing we should do is start connecting dense residential areas. If we had enough money, by all means, connect everything you can, especially a major destination like the stadium. I just think that to get it working on a daily vs. a special event basis, you have to connect up to the residential areas.

[ChriswUfGator]

ANNIE TRANSIT CENTER, This would be connected to 5-Points via 'a grand paseo', plus bus
in addition to two floors of shopping and a theater. The original plan called for the Skyway to cross the Freeway at this point on Roselle St. - Even with the Annie Center there is no reason why a pedestrian bridge or underpass couldn't be fit in from Annie west.







concept design by R.W. Mann, Models by Jason



OCKLAWAHA

+1,000,000,000

Beautiful!

[JeffreyS]

I hear you and not a bad suggestion I still  think I come down on the streetcar line from Riverside to the Landing, sports district and Springfield first.  Added benefit it is already in the approved mobility plan. 

I am going bck to DC in July and when I get off the plan and take the Train to Gaithersburg I may come around to your line of thinking.

[JeffreyS]

We just elected a Mayor with a pro investing in Downtown stance.  I agree that the image problem you describe exists just may not be as pervasive as you believe.

[Keith-N-Jax]

As soon as Jacksonville was awarded an NFL franchise construction to the stadium should have started the next day. With a new arena hosting many events and hopefully metropark and shipyard improvements in the future serious thought in this needs to take place. Streetcar in Riverside probably wont happen.

[Tacachale]

FWIW, more goes on at the sports complex than just football games. On top of the vast amount of riders the football games would attract, the Suns play something like 70 home games a year, and draw around 5000 people a night. The arena football team plays at least 8 home games, and draws over 8000 people a night. There are also the various other events at the arena, many of which also draw thousands of people. If - god willing - we can get hockey back in there, there would be even more than that.

There are plenty of people heading down to the sports complex through the year. Whether enough of them would take the skyway if it didn't hit up their neighborhood is a different question.

It doesn't really matter, the system can serve every non-residential destination from here to China and that still won't do much for ridership. It's like a hallway with 100 exits and no entrance, it still won't have any people in it. You need to connect residential centers with the destination. If I have to drive just to ride a train a short distance, then who isn't just going to drive to the destination and be done with it? If I can walk a couple blocks to the station and then take the train to the destination, then that's another story.

That's what's always missing from these boondoggles when it comes to rail transport in this state, we need to quit designing these short-haul systems that require a car to get to the stations. That's asinine and defeats the whole damn point. Then they can't figure out why nobody rides it.

I totally agree with that last point.

[Beloki]

Extend to the Airport: All visitors to downtown from Airport would use it: 7 days a week and would be good for downtown and downtown hotels.

[tufsu1]

I agree the park & ride for games would bring a lot of riders

here's the thing...lots of people already use the park & ride lots at the Prime Osborn for games....JTA runs a shuttle bus abouit every 5-10 minutes starting 5 hours before the game...so a Skyway extension to the satdium would just duplicate that service.

And then there's the crush after the game...if anyone has ever ridden public transit after a game in a big city, you know there is a need for extra vehicles waiting....I'm talking about even in full-on subway systems like DC, PHL, and ATL....now imagine how that would work (or not) with the little skyway vehicles.

[ChriswUfGator]

I agree the park & ride for games would bring a lot of riders

here's the thing...lots of people already use the park & ride lots at the Prime Osborn for games....JTA runs a shuttle bus abouit every 5-10 minutes starting 5 hours before the game...so a Skyway extension to the satdium would just duplicate that service.

And then there's the crush after the game...if anyone has ever ridden public transit after a game in a big city, you know there is a need for extra vehicles waiting....I'm talking about even in full-on subway systems like DC, PHL, and ATL....now imagine how that would work (or not) with the little skyway vehicles.

You could add more cars.

But you and I agree, I was the one saying to forget about the stadium until the skyway first connects to residential areas. It connects a bunch of destinations currently, but no people. Like a hallway with a bunch of rooms off it and no entrances. People come from where people are, the basic issue here is you have to connect residential with business with retail, that's the basic formula. Skyway's problem is it connects to no residential.