Street artists, your reign of terror ends now!

[Dog Walker]

So?  Can I come "practice" on your storefront or car?  Twice a week after you've repaired the damage?

Making art with a spray can is absolutely legitimate.  Set up a piece of plywood in your backyard and have a ball.  Get good; get famous.  I am in awe of the work on the side of Fans and Stoves.  Every time I look at it I see something new and see more meaning in it.

Stephen, you've seen what we have around here and it isn't about art.  Stop trying to deflect the real discussion.  It is about vandalism and property rights, not about art.  It's about people trying to run their businesses undisturbed by having to constantly clean up their property at great expense.

There are really great people trying to start innovative and imaginative businesses in Riverside.  This is the place that they need to be.  Many of them are struggling along and cannot afford the clean-up cost and the Code Enforcement fines.  There are vacant storefronts that cannot be rented because prospective businesses are frightened off by what the perceive as "gang" activity or that their customers will be scared off by the aura of lawlessness that extensive tagging and graffiti creates.

[ChriswUfGator]

Agreed.

Art is art. Some douchebag spray-painting his name all over your stuff is not art in my book.

Nobody minds actual art. It's the tagging that's the problem.

[904Scars]

Sorry if I stepped on your toes. I personally hate confrontation. I said I agreed that taking a sharpie to things isn't art. Dare I bring up "rearl artist" such as Banksy, Ces53 and Shepard Fairey (if your not familiar with these name PLEASE search them), I understand your frustration being a business owner but I think it's partially blurred your vision of what art really is, in the end it really makes no difference whether it's on plywood, cardboard, brick, canvas or paper. I'm also not saying it's right (legally). I understand that it's a HUGE inconvenience to you, I really do. That's why I mentioned creating an alternative for some of these artist. Regardless I still think it's a bit over the top to put up cameras. Done...

[Dog Walker]

No confrontation, 904, just a difference of viewpoint.  You're cool with me and my toes.  Didn't mean to sound angry, just definite.

I agree with you that art comes in many, many forms and styles.  I happen to be a collector and have literally run out of walls to hang things on.  Having absolutely no artistic talent of my own I deeply admire those who do and try to support them.

[AKIRA]

Without getting all geeked out over graffitti, art, Banksy and all, it should be pointed out that -IF- there are cameras in 5 Points, it was at the behest of the business owners.  The damage taggers have done in the past is not limited to having to paint over scribbles.  Heating/cooling units and piping were being broken by those folks trying to climb on the roofs.  If you haven't had to repair those things, then be advised you are dealing with a big $ bill... too big for a small business to regularly cover.

For that matter, I can't any evidence that cameras were put up for that purpose... or and history that anyone has ever been arrested for a sticker...

[NaldoAveKnight]

Gainesville has the 34th St Wall.  It's legit and sanctioned by the community and the city.  Everyone loves the wall.  All of the art, tagging, and otherwise graffiti is put on the wall for all to see.  Other cities do the same thing.  Let's figure out a place in Five Points or Jacksonville that's visible and available for this sort of thing.  Over time it would be a source of community pride like it is in Gainesville.  I grew up in Gainesville and there was a widespread feeling that giving folks the ability to express themselves was a benefit to the community. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/34th_Street_Wall

[jaxlore]

I saw the angel downtown on the old 618 building... I love street art, that being said there definitely is a line when you defacing some old abandoned building and someones beautifully restored brickwork. Definitely would be to everyone's advantage to create a graffiti wall like the one mentioned by NaldoAveKnight.

The whole camera thing really seems like a terribly misguided use of resources. These actions make is seem like JSO has more of an interest in protecting walls in 5 points then lives of black youths in other areas.

[jcjohnpaint]

We went downtown yesterday to find a few.  Found 2. 

[Dog Walker]

We created a free wall behind the merchants district, I actually bought a couple of thousand dollars in spray paints and let the kids practice until their hearts content in exchange for policing the rest of the taggers to keep the tags off our store fronts.

But the store fronts were tagged too as were surrounding properties and the vandals carrying your paint up onto the roofs of the merchants stores damaged the roofs with nails and vandalized A/C units deliberately.  Art isn't the motivation, vandalism and the adrenalin rush of doing something "bad" is/was.

After the arrest of the members of the crew that called itself the Bastard Son's of Vandalism (! note: not Bastard Sons of Art!), one of the members returned to his home in Miami after serving his time in jail and wrote on a graffiti blog, "Do NOT write in Jacksonville.  The cops will f### you!"

[Andy]

StephenDare, what happened to that free space in 5 Points anyway? I used to go there and shoot photos on occasion, but it got painted clean some years back... any idea why, or who was behind it? Seemed like a positive thing to me.

[Jax native]

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Yeah, a couple of new merchants opened up shops and their feeling was that Five Points was headed to a more upscale and largely more gay aesthetic, so they painted over the wall to reflect that.
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I'm not shooting the messenger, but that is so ugly to read & think it's true (although I have no doubt it is).

[E_Dubya]

I agree criminalizing it is not necessarily the solution, at least not by itself.

I think there should be designated areas for graffiti art, and the real problem is that if some of the property owners want to allow murals or exterior artwork, then code enforcement needs to back off and let it be. They're usually up your ass about it, like what happened with the Preservation S.O.S. hearts in Springfield, during the boarding/sealing project they were boarding up vacant properties so Code Enforcement wouldn't tear them down for being open and vacant, and they had painted little red hearts on the boards so instead COJ cited them for "Graffiti." How asinine...

This; absolutely this. You manage to give street artists a conduit to express themselves without damaging others'  property. You also separate the artists from those that are tagging for the sake vandalism (whom I assume will still seek out the rush of graffiti on private properoty).

[Dog Walker]

StephenDare, what happened to that free space in 5 Points anyway? I used to go there and shoot photos on occasion, but it got painted clean some years back... any idea why, or who was behind it? Seemed like a positive thing to me.

Yeah, a couple of new merchants opened up shops and their feeling was that Five Points was headed to a more upscale and largely more gay aesthetic, so they painted over the wall to reflect that.

Nope,  Long time merchants such as Edge City and Fans & Stoves and Riverside Liquors got fed up with having to re-paint the back of their stores and repair their roofs.  The 5 Points Merchants Assn carefully got permission letters from all property owners and business owners, raised donations from their membership, had mis-tint paint donated by Brinton's Paint, equipment at cost from Sherman-Williams then had a huge volunteer day and painted out all of the graffiti in one day.  They were joined by volunteers from RAP and JSO officers and Councilman Love.  It was a real community effort, not the narrow-minded, selfish effort you are trying to portray.  Oh, for full disclosure, some of the volunteers and business owners were gay.

How do I know the inside details?  I helped organize it.

That space was not a "free space".  It was an outlaw wall and the business owners and property owners hated it.

It is illegal vandalism to paint property that is not your own without permission.

[Dog Walker]

It was not an outlaw wall,  in fact the wall started in a much smaller and confined area and ended up growing with the permission of the nearby merchants.

Sorry, the merchants did NOT give permission, nor did the property owners.  They were furious and fed up which is why they made the effort.  I did not do it by myself.

Love you too, but you are the one taking the extreme position on this.  We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[AKIRA]

Everything DW said, with respect to police and the arrests, was absolutely correct.

The area used for graffitti got bigger and bigger, moving from the courtyard to the entire building, until folks started climbing to the roof.  Broken pipes, broken heating/coolng systems, trash, fights, etc got out of hand. 

The original people using the walls failed to keep the new comers in line with the proper ethics.