JSO arrests "SIMON", major graffiti vandel.

[Springfielder]

Just because graffiti is everywhere, it should be legalized? or at the very least, accept it? Really.... So we should just accept any level of vandalism, just because it happens? That's crap! If a property owner wants so offer up free space for it, that's their choice, but it certainly shouldn't be something that as a whole, should be expected. These 'artists' cause property owners a lot of money, and it's wrong. Why don't they rent wall space?

[BridgeTroll]

Alot of artist do graffiti, simply to stay occupied, to stay out of trouble even. They get bored, try something and become obsessed. Some do it as a rebellion against authority, for watever reason, and those are generally a nuisance.

These are simply excuses for vandals.  Graffiti on property that is not yours is vandalism... pure and simple.  Vandals who are caught need to be prosecuted, fined, and forced to undo the theirs and others graffiti and tags. 

[buckethead]

1) Vandalism ≠ Art

2) Graffiti ≠ Art

3) (in very rare instances) Graffiti = Art = Vandalism

4) Those artists assume the risk of criminal prosecution. This ain't rocket surgery, folks.

[Ocklawaha]

What I believe.. Are there are 2 sides to this story, of which both hold valuable points. You have the side of the artist & the one of the concerned citizen. I don't agree with vandalism, nor approve. But at the same time I am torn between these two very relative arguments.

Artist are not vandals and vandals are not artists.

You see, as one who isn't the artist, you have to put yourself in their shoes. Alot of artist do graffiti, simply to stay occupied, to stay out of trouble even. They get bored, try something and become obsessed. Some do it as a rebellion against authority, for watever reason, and those are generally a nuisance. Personally I don't have a problem with graffiti, some of it I find interesting. But I'm also not a business owner.

So to understand Bonnie and Clyde one must become Bonnie and Clyde? If the 'artist' is so bad that 'they get bored' then its time to learn another skill.

As one who is the artist, you must understand not everyones view of art is the same and not everyone will approve or understand you. also not many are likely to agree or sympathize with one they view an ongoing nuisance.

Understanding your art is a completely different proposition then 'understanding' that you have a primal need to tresspass and vandalize the property of others.

The point is graffiti is everywhere. Wether there be a legal place to do it (which could improve it) or not, it's gonna be there. There really is no stopping it. I think as a community we should expect it, and accept it's something that will always be dealt with.

There is no stopping theft, robbery, murder or rape either, so by your logic we should expect it and accept it?

Key factor:  one thing you folks need to realize, is these "real artist" you speak of weren't born with paint in their hands. If fact I guarantee 90 percent of the artists you admire started out as a "pain in the ass tagger nuisance". Gotta get ahead some how.

It's true that 'real artists' were not born with paint in their hands, but they were born with enough talent that they don't need to destroy other peoples property. No one 'gets ahead' by committing crimes.

Art is limitless.. Not all artist can be contained.

So buy your own property and set yourself free, try this crap at my house and your going to be arrested.

If Jacksonville city officials really cared how our city looked... Our downtown area would be improved including a few other areas. The majority of vandalism of all sorts is portrayed in the downtown area due to the fact that it is so often ignored. Our tax dollars could be very well better placed. They want to spend all this time money and effort on such a nonviolent crime, Yet take sports out of schools. What do you think these kids will do now? Probably paint a building or possibly find a worse crime to occupy their time. .........Just think about it

Why spend any money improving downtown when a band of foolish little immature 'artists' are just going to make the whole place look like an upholstered sewer? Your crime of choice may be nonviolent, but it leaves a string of victims. 5 gallons of any decent paint is well over $100 dollars, how many of those dollars will it take to clean up after these criminals? Imagine if all of that money could be spent on high school sports, athletes would still be athletes and criminal vandals would still be criminal vandals. I'll agree to live with your graffiti when you agree to live in my garbage can.

OCKLAWAHA

[ChriswUfGator]

You know what, after this kid and/or his friends showed up here with blood-boiling false justifications, I don't feel bad anymore. There is very little graffiti art in Jacksonville. 99% of it, including the two in this case, are douchebags running around spraypainting their name all over other peoples' property. It's not art. If they want to continue doing it, take the risk of arrest.

[Go skate fatty]

what none of you saw was my beginning statement. I do not agree with vandalism nor condone it. Nor do I participate in it. I said accept it not meaning accept graffiti. Just know it's gonna happen and get over it. I'm sorry but as a property owner, you have to accept vandalism is a possibility. Of course call the city and report it, I'm not saying not to, but I think it's funny you all are so passionatly against something you can't, and won't ever try to fix.

I'm not making any excuses for vandals or artist by naming reasons why they do it. I'm simply trying to persuade you to be more open minded of the perspective of the other side. 

In able to fully understand any of this debate, you first have to look at it from that perspective, otherwise everything you say is one sided.

To compare theft, murder and rape with spray paint on a wall is a bit ignorant, and tad bit rash don't you think? I never even said they shouldn't be punished,  a crime is a crime. What I did say is, you have alot to say about an act that you have not even BEGAN to try and understand.

You think you got it all figured out, like you know all about it. The reality is youre speaking on pure opinion of a mostly one sided topic. It sure is easy having the majority vote, huh?

Lets compare something a bit more close in size.
Piracy of music and dvds is something done daily, but I bet you don't think these people should suffer. Who cares if they steal from artists and make profits that aren't rightfully theres right? Because artist are rich? But those people wouldnt be rich without people actually buying thier stuff.  This is STEALING. The point is people have so much to say about little crimes other people do but look over the little crimes they do everyday. Before you look at someone else and judge them, you need to judge yourself. It's easy to point fingers and degrade when everyone else is doing it. If everyone in this topic was all about graffiti, I wonder where you would stand. Hmm.

Don't jump down my throat because my opinion isn't just like yours. If youre really so passionate about it, if you give a crap how jacksonville looks go out there and do something about it! Get off your fat a** and go clean some walls!

[Dog Walker]

As a matter of fact, I spent about two hours yesterday morning painting out tags from the walls of some local businesses.  I do know what I am talking about.

You are correct about there being two sides to the issue.  It's called the right side and wrong side.

[Ocklawaha]

what none of you saw was my beginning statement. I do not agree with vandalism nor condone it. Nor do I participate in it. I said accept it not meaning accept graffiti. Just know it's gonna happen and get over it. I'm sorry but as a property owner, you have to accept vandalism is a possibility. Of course call the city and report it, I'm not saying not to, but I think it's funny you all are so passionatly against something you can't, and won't ever try to fix.

Nobody accepts vandalism, the reality is you don't fix it by creating a park for people to trash. You don't fix graffiti by making a spot to 'tag' free of penalty. 

Lets compare something a bit more close in size.
Piracy of music and dvds is something done daily, but I bet you don't think these people should suffer. Who cares if they steal from artists and make profits that aren't rightfully theres right? Because artist are rich? But those people wouldnt be rich without people actually buying thier stuff.  This is STEALING. The point is people have so much to say about little crimes other people do but look over the little crimes they do everyday. Before you look at someone else and judge them, you need to judge yourself. It's easy to point fingers and degrade when everyone else is doing it. If everyone in this topic was all about graffiti, I wonder where you would stand. Hmm.

Where do I stand? As a published author of several books and thousands of pages of articles I see it as theft, pure and simple, and it is against the law.

Don't jump down my throat because my opinion isn't just like yours. If youre really so passionate about it, if you give a crap how jacksonville looks go out there and do something about it! Get off your fat a** and go clean some walls!

Your the one with the immature passion that is trying to justify a criminal act. Your the one that started name calling when I called a crime (rape, robbery etc.) a crime.  I do something about it, it's called 911, try it at my house and it's called Smith and Wesson. Once again, your rights end at my property line.

OCKLAWAHA

[Go skate fatty]

Tacachale - that I agree with, some people are so disrespectful.

Dog walker- I think it's great you help clean up our city. I now know why you find this so annoying.


Ocklawaha- As an author I would expect you to be a little more observant of my words. I've never said building a wall was the solution, to me that would be a waste of tax dollars. The solution, obviously isn't found... Doesn't seem like youre trying to do it either. Another thing, you clearly assumed I was a painter. I never used those words. Graffiti is not "my immature criminal act". I'm not trying to bust your balls but as an author, of several books, you really seem bad at comprehending. Does this mean your research is full of assumed facts and misinterpreted statements? I'd love to read these books and articles, what is your name?

[Tacachale]

Well, I certainly agree that vandalism is a problem that isn't going away. I also believe that part of the problem is that the perps generally have no concept of how much damage they actually do. But there's a difference between acknowledging a problem, and accepting it as permissible.

[Ocklawaha]

My points were simply stated.

1. Nobody 'accepts' vandalism in the form of graffiti
2. You can't fix it by making it legal in a park
3. That I agree that intellectual property theft is a crime
4. You are the one passionately defending graffiti
5. That I call a crime a crime no matter how trivial or severe
6. The solution is simply calling 911
7. Anyone vandalizing property in my house is liable to be shot
8. The 'right' to break the law ends at my property line

Amazing!

OCKLAWAHA

[Springfielder]

You said it, Ock! It's illegal, and it's costly to whomever has to clean and/or repaint because some moron decided it was okay to spray paint on property that does not belong to them. So I'm not at all interested in hearing the other side, like DW said, there's two sides...right and wrong, and intentionally defacing someones property, is wrong! Unless you're (meaning the vandals) are painting their own property, their 'art' is not welcomed.

[ChriswUfGator]

You said it, Ock! It's illegal, and it's costly to whomever has to clean and/or repaint because some moron decided it was okay to spray paint on property that does not belong to them. So I'm not at all interested in hearing the other side, like DW said, there's two sides...right and wrong, and intentionally defacing someones property, is wrong! Unless you're (meaning the vandals) are painting their own property, their 'art' is not welcomed.

That's really what kills it.

Somehow, it's never their own place these guys are spraypainting, is it?

[Ernest Street]

I'm sorry, but I couldn't help remembering the scene in the gang movie "Colors" with Sean Penn and Robert Duvall playing cops, when Sean (Pac-Man) spray paints the taggers face green with his own can after asking him why he didn't deface the beautiful Catholic religious Graffiti on the opposite side of the street.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]