JSO arrests "SIMON", major graffiti vandel.

[jerry cornwell]

  Great!!!!

[spankye3]

how many of you ignorant people have EVER done graffiti?! how many besides dogwalker actually DO SOMETHING to change whats happening?! how many in here REALLY even KNOW what graffiti is all about?! my guess is NONE. before you type anymore on here. you should really look inward and ask yourself what you do wrong each and everyday and how much it effects the people around you.

I tried to open your eyes about graffiti. i triedf to tell you its not just taggin on illegal walls. im done. %99 of you are some of the most ignorant people i have ever read about. wow. its easy to piont fingers huh? The same people you speak about are the same people that help the homeless. That are working WITH THE CITY to help improve jacksonville. I know "vandals" that do more to make this city a better place than MANY MANY of you. they dont just post about it.

graffiti is not going anywhere. there are many clothing company, web desinger, graffic artists who have develpoed their skills DIRECTLY form graffiti. It is being more accepted across America and is being used in more and more ways every day. If your tryin to completely stop graffiti. YOU WILL FAIL. PERIOD.

By the way, when Alexander the Great went to the Great Pyramid of Giza, he carved his name at the top. Do you think we asked the Indians if we could carve our forfathers in Mount Rushmore, or you think we just did it. Graffiti has ALWAYS been there. And its go nowhere real fast.

[ChriswUfGator]

how many of you ignorant people have EVER done graffiti?! how many besides dogwalker actually DO SOMETHING to change whats happening?! how many in here REALLY even KNOW what graffiti is all about?! my guess is NONE. before you type anymore on here. you should really look inward and ask yourself what you do wrong each and everyday and how much it effects the people around you.

I tried to open your eyes about graffiti. i triedf to tell you its not just taggin on illegal walls. im done. %99 of you are some of the most ignorant people i have ever read about. wow. its easy to piont fingers huh? The same people you speak about are the same people that help the homeless. That are working WITH THE CITY to help improve jacksonville. I know "vandals" that do more to make this city a better place than MANY MANY of you. they dont just post about it.

graffiti is not going anywhere. there are many clothing company, web desinger, graffic artists who have develpoed their skills DIRECTLY form graffiti. It is being more accepted across America and is being used in more and more ways every day. If your tryin to completely stop graffiti. YOU WILL FAIL. PERIOD.

By the way, when Alexander the Great went to the Great Pyramid of Giza, he carved his name at the top. Do you think we asked the Indians if we could carve our forfathers in Mount Rushmore, or you think we just did it. Graffiti has ALWAYS been there. And its go nowhere real fast.

If it's so awesome, why don't these guys just spraypaint their own houses and be done with it then? Why others' property?

[Ocklawaha]

I don't think we're dealing with a 'young adult' here, seems much more like a preteen child. The reasoning that people that choose not to distroy other peoples property and are thus fundamentally against graffiti are 'ignorant.'
This kid is a piece of work, it would be knee slapping funny if it wasn't so pathetic.


OCKLAWAHA

[Ralph W]

how many of you ignorant people have EVER done graffiti?! how many besides dogwalker actually DO SOMETHING to change whats happening?! how many in here REALLY even KNOW what graffiti is all about?! my guess is NONE. before you type anymore on here. you should really look inward and ask yourself what you do wrong each and everyday and how much it effects the people around you.

I tried to open your eyes about graffiti. i triedf to tell you its not just taggin on illegal walls. im done. %99 of you are some of the most ignorant people i have ever read about. wow. its easy to piont fingers huh? The same people you speak about are the same people that help the homeless. That are working WITH THE CITY to help improve jacksonville. I know "vandals" that do more to make this city a better place than MANY MANY of you. they dont just post about it.

graffiti is not going anywhere. there are many clothing company, web desinger, graffic artists who have develpoed their skills DIRECTLY form graffiti. It is being more accepted across America and is being used in more and more ways every day. If your tryin to completely stop graffiti. YOU WILL FAIL. PERIOD.

By the way, when Alexander the Great went to the Great Pyramid of Giza, he carved his name at the top. Do you think we asked the Indians if we could carve our forfathers in Mount Rushmore, or you think we just did it. Graffiti has ALWAYS been there. And its go nowhere real fast.

If it's so awesome, why don't these guys just spraypaint their own houses and be done with it then? Why others' property?

The straw man here is the attempt to obfuscate:

"you should really look inward and ask yourself what you do wrong each and everyday and how much it effects the people around you."

"The same people you speak about are the same people that help the homeless."

The topic here is graffiti and no matter how it is spun, the act is still illegal. The writer conveniently ignores the facts that graffiti is hurtful, in spite of being a stepping stone for a "budding" artist. It is hurtful to the owners of buildings that have been spray painted, even if it was a Michelangelo quality mural, because the law holds the owner responsible and forces him to either remove or cover over the so-called "art" or be subject to fines or liens. An architectural treasure so defaced would make any argument for indiscriminate graffiti specious.

I don't care how much someone helps the homeless, it's nothing more than a diversion from the topic.

If you want another straw man... I think in order to hone my martial arts skills I have to take it from the dojo to the street and beat up some one there because the rules of engagement are not so strict. Or, all those rules at the firing range hamper my ability to function on the street. I'm going to pick on some real moving targets, instead.

[Springfielder]

how many of you ignorant people have EVER done graffiti?! how many besides dogwalker actually DO SOMETHING to change whats happening?! how many in here REALLY even KNOW what graffiti is all about?! my guess is NONE. before you type anymore on here. you should really look inward and ask yourself what you do wrong each and everyday and how much it effects the people around you.

I tried to open your eyes about graffiti. i triedf to tell you its not just taggin on illegal walls. im done. %99 of you are some of the most ignorant people i have ever read about. wow. its easy to piont fingers huh? The same people you speak about are the same people that help the homeless. That are working WITH THE CITY to help improve jacksonville. I know "vandals" that do more to make this city a better place than MANY MANY of you. they dont just post about it.

graffiti is not going anywhere. there are many clothing company, web desinger, graffic artists who have develpoed their skills DIRECTLY form graffiti. It is being more accepted across America and is being used in more and more ways every day. If your tryin to completely stop graffiti. YOU WILL FAIL. PERIOD.

By the way, when Alexander the Great went to the Great Pyramid of Giza, he carved his name at the top. Do you think we asked the Indians if we could carve our forfathers in Mount Rushmore, or you think we just did it. Graffiti has ALWAYS been there. And its go nowhere real fast.

Your ignorance is showing, by your attempts to justify criminal actions, which is evidenced by the references given. Speaking of ignorant.....all you've tried to do is justify the morons that are breaking the law and causing damage to someone elses property, including tax payers who end up having to pay for the clean up. Then you try to turn the guilt around onto those of us law abiding citizens, because we don't accept your attempt to justify what is a criminal act.

No, I've never spray painted or defaced property, so your flimsy attempt has failed. As for DW being the only one who does something...wrong again. Although I'm not in support of offering up these criminals a free place to deface, and would support the law being even more stringent when dealing with the morons that deface property.

Graffiti may still continue to happen, and those impacted will still have to clean up their property and tax payers will still have to pay for what others have done wrong. Such is the vicious cycle caused by criminals and those who have no respect for others.

[Ocklawaha]

I don't think we're dealing with a 'young adult' here, seems much more like a preteen child. The reasoning that people that choose not to distroy other peoples property and are thus fundamentally against graffiti are 'ignorant.'
This kid is a piece of work, it would be knee slapping funny if it wasn't so pathetic.


OCKLAWAHA

I am hardly in my preteens, and you are just plain ignoring the clear words that the poster is speaking.

Everyone wants to talk about taggers defacing someone's property, and ignore the larger art.

I will requote the following:
i tried to tell you its not just taggin on illegal walls

Its just disrespectful to ignore what spankye is saying and then attack a straw man.

It would be just as fair to attack public transportation on the basis of perceived skyway failures.

Some of the best art produced in this city has been made by graffiti artists and we celebrate it in several of the neighborhoods.

I certainly prefer seeing graffiti covering decrepit old buildings to the left behind industrial blight of absentee landlords.

Spankye, there are a lot of people on here who feel the same.

Sorry but this isn't art.

...And obviously I wasn't talking about you Stephen. I also am not arguing that there is no artistic value in their work, my point being that their rights end at my property line. Only a child would defend a susposed right to distroy property based solely on some primal urge.

The Lions here at he bridge in St. Augustine were just recently spray painted with red eyes, and it is taking a small fortune to clean them up. There is simply nothing, that makes this right. The Lions are @50 thousand dollars each, if this kid wants to paint some then he can go buy his own.

Some time back we ran photos of some graffiti art that was actually beautiful, but doing this without permission is illegal. The answer is that the art in those photos is good enough to be welcomed on many buildings and the artist would have little trouble finding lots of locations to legally perform his work or even be paid for it. Bottom line is if your good enough, there will be a demand for your art, all I'm saying is get permission first.  

OCKLAWAHA

[Dog Walker]

With all respect, Stephen.  None of the stuff I have cleaned up or painted over comes anywhere near "art".  It is just someone's made up name spray painted on someone's building; a stylized signature if you will, a "tag".  The few attempts at representing something are usually crude genitalia or look like a ten year old trying to draw monsters.

Maybe there are some budding spray paint artists out there and I have seen pictures of "street art" that do qualify as art, but not here in Jacksonville so far.  You know that I am an art collector and have some notion of what qualifies.  I can show you pictures of what we get around here and you would agree with me.

Bowman and the Bell brothers were certainly not trying to be "artistic", but were just putting their street names on every possible surface they could reach.  My male dog does much the same thing on every vertical surface, but that's certainly not art.

Writing your street names in balloon letters in bright colors ain't art.   And there is something about the illegality of the act that is part of the motivation and that's not an artistic impulse.

[Dog Walker]

But some, like Spankye3, ARE trying to conflate tagging with art.  I know you don't.

Also unaddressed by you is why even the "artistic" wannabes insist on practicing on buildings other than their own or their families or where they get permission or on a couple of sheets of plywood set up in their back yard.  There is obviously something attractive about being "outlaw".  It's not just the style of the stuff.  Even in places where there have been free walls, the outlaw painting still exists and even expands into the surrounding community.

I don't get the attraction myself, but it's been a very, very long time since I was the age of most of these jerks.

[Coolyfett]

how many of you ignorant people have EVER.......

Whats with the name calling buddy??

[Coolyfett]

Its gone. Graffiti only lasts a few days. You have to tarvel to see it. Writers can spend hours on a painting only for it to lasts hours on the wall. They leave it up to the enviroment. If a wall is built, maybe you can take some time and admire it then. But if not, its hard to see it. You have to be around the city a lot. The smaller "tags" are a lot smaller and a lot more abundent. But it takes the right kind of place to really put up some colorful work. And i will admit, there are places were graffiti writers have painted on open business'. Im not denying that, but those are the same people that give the rest bad names. Their are bad apples in a lot of different cultures.Bad mechanics, bad fishermen, and even bad police officers.But not all are this way.You cant think thats all thats out there. There is great art all over the city, but you have to look for it. But again, its hard to do something legally if theres not a legal place to do it. And the correct term is moniker. Not "tagger name".

I see your point man. I agree with what you are saying. Do you guys ever do stuff like this?






Trains are my favorite places to see that sort of stuff lol.....I just like it!!! Call me whatever name yall want, but spray paint on trains is gnarly ha ha ha ha and I pay my taxes.

[Dog Walker]

But some, like Spankye3, ARE trying to conflate tagging with art.  I know you don't.

Also unaddressed by you is why even the "artistic" wannabes insist on practicing on buildings other than their own or their families or where they get permission or on a couple of sheets of plywood set up in their back yard.  There is obviously something attractive about being "outlaw".  It's not just the style of the stuff.  Even in places where there have been free walls, the outlaw painting still exists and even expands into the surrounding community.

I don't get the attraction myself, but it's been a very, very long time since I was the age of most of these jerks.

meh.  the idea that tagging 'expands' from graffiti, even where there are free walls is just cop talk, DogWalker.

Study after study shows that free walls slow down the vandalism and the tagging.  They really are two different groups of people in most places anyways.  It would be like thinking that cutting down on the number of tennis players will keep baseball teams from forming.  Im sure if you are draconian enough about sports with balls that are about the size of oranges, that would be true, but only if you are willing to imprison all kids with balls.

Free Walls promote personal and community pride, and from those feelings come a lot of other good things.

And don''t forget that there is another element here, and that is absentee landlords and demolition by neglect.

Which do you think was worse for School Number 4? The taggers or the property owner that called the cops for 'vandalizing' a building that he watched the roof collapse on?

Not so sure, Stephen.  Here are two items from Keep America Beautiful that are slightly contradictory to one another.  I'm not sure what the difference is between a "free wall" and a "community paint brush mural".  Why not a "spray paint mural"  like Thurston's?  That has seemed to work here.

6. Do legal walls really work?

Communities that have tried "legal" or "free walls," or areas that permit graffiti, typically find them ineffective, including over a dozen cities in California, Illinois, Connecticut, and other states.

While well intentioned, legal walls often cause more harm than good, and tend to attract graffiti vandals from outside the city. They may appear to work at first, but after a period of time, the surrounding areas also become covered with graffiti.

With a legal wall, governments or businesses essentially sponsor graffiti in an effort to rid a community of graffiti. This sends a mixed message. Data also shows no decrease in arrests for graffiti in cities where there are legal walls.

Communities that want to create a "legal" wall should be ready to take responsibility for any number of adverse effects, or liability and negligence issues. Following are just a few to consider:

    Who will monitor the wall?
    Will it be repainted regularly to provide a fresh "canvas"?
    What if someone writes obscenities on the wall? What action would be taken?
    What if the graffiti moves to walls nearby or surrounding the "legal wall"? Who will pay for removal? Who will ensure the safety of those removing graffiti?
    Who is allowed to use the "legal wall"? Will they be required to wear face masks? How will any "rules" be enforced?
    Are there laws in place that restrict possession of graffiti implement by minors?

Then somewhere else they say this: 

Community paint-brush murals can be an effective prevention strategy. Although they are occasionally defaced by graffiti, they instill a sense of pride among youth and other community members who have helped create them.

You are still not responding to everyone's observation that "pieces" (5% of graffiti nationally)  and "tags" (85% of graffiti nationally)  always seem to be put on someones property besides that of the graffiti vandal or his family, but always on someplace that belongs to someone else.  Why is the outlaw aspect such an integral part of graffiti crew culture?

And for those of you who have added up the percentages; the other 10% is gang graffiti.

[Dog Walker]

Its gone. Graffiti only lasts a few days. You have to tarvel to see it. Writers can spend hours on a painting only for it to lasts hours on the wall. They leave it up to the enviroment. If a wall is built, maybe you can take some time and admire it then. But if not, its hard to see it. You have to be around the city a lot. The smaller "tags" are a lot smaller and a lot more abundent. But it takes the right kind of place to really put up some colorful work. And i will admit, there are places were graffiti writers have painted on open business'. Im not denying that, but those are the same people that give the rest bad names. Their are bad apples in a lot of different cultures.Bad mechanics, bad fishermen, and even bad police officers.But not all are this way.You cant think thats all thats out there. There is great art all over the city, but you have to look for it. But again, its hard to do something legally if theres not a legal place to do it. And the correct term is moniker. Not "tagger name".

I see your point man. I agree with what you are saying. Do you guys ever do stuff like this?






Trains are my favorite places to see that sort of stuff lol.....I just like it!!! Call me whatever name yall want, but spray paint on trains is gnarly ha ha ha ha and I pay my taxes.

Cooly,  In five years I have seen only three "pieces" that even approach the skill of those you have pictured and they were evidently done by people passing through town because I've never seen them again.  They were also on the retaining walls of I-10 and I-95 which makes me think the same.  Even the most elaborate stuff done inside Annie Lytle is just balloon letters and simpler tags.  There is nothing even vaguely pictorial or 3-D.  What we see around here are tags and crude, monochromatic drawings of faces and penises.  There are a couple of those on the columns at the front of Annie Lytle right now.  My six year old niece can draw better.

[Dog Walker]

JSO tells me that in the past several years they have only seen "gang" graffiti in our three county area about half a dozen times and that was from our local "wannabe" gangs.  That is a national statistic.  I am sure that in some places like South Los Angeles, it's much higher than 10%.  Don't know who was passing out the BS about 175 gangs and satanism before.  Sounds like something Dale Carson, Sr. would have spread around by the shovelful.

We don't have real gangs or gang graffiti here.  We also defy another national statistic that says that 90% of graffiti vandals are between 16-19 years old.  The majority of those arrested around here are over 21.  Not juveniles, but just adolescent thinkers.  Go figure.

BTW, in my smoking days of long ago, bongs weren't yet popular.  We always used Rizla papers. 

The only thing "breathtaking" about what is being done now is how breathtakingly ugly it is and the breathtaking disrespect it shows for the businesses on whose storefronts it is scribbled.

You are still avoiding my point about the outlaw attraction!   

[Dog Walker]

You are dodging, Stephen!   

Shawn Thurston's work is fantastic and you know I think so.    He is also not spray painting on other peoples walls now.  He grew out of that phase both artistically and morally. 

I have no idea what kind of work was being done ten or twenty years ago.  The stuff being done by the vandals now IS crap and less than 5% of it (national average!) is pieces.  Guess our graffiti community has regressed.  I could show you pictures, but won't post them.