Jax listed as one of Forbes' Most Miserable Cities

[Ocklawaha]

we do have shortcomings, but saying we suck just isnt right.

People complain.  Its what we do.  It probably started somewhere back in evolutionary history, when one group of chimps decided that living in the trees sucked.  

I imagine one of the chimpy stand up comedians entertaining the rest of the malcontents:

"This is for the birds.....Literally!"  (coarse chimp laughter follows)

Within three years, a group of teabagging chimps strike out for the Savannah giving the tree chimps the evolutionary finger as monkey poo is flung at their backsides from the leafy heights.

Its just who we are.

While I tend to agree with both of you about
Jacksonville's tendency to  denigrate itself, Forbes
Magazine can kiss my sweet, old, sandy, Jacksonville, Butt...

OCKLAWAHA

[simms3]

Thanks for the clarification Stephen.

[ujs3]

I probably should have included the article that went along with the pictures. The criteria they use, while subjective, are not simply based on sports teams experiencing a bad season. This also takes into account economic conditions.

http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/americas-most-miserable-cities-2011.html

[Steve_Lovett]

These kinds of responses are why many people who I respect in Jacksonville do not give Metro Jacksonville the credibility that many here think it has.

I am just passing along some opinions that I have heard from friends.  They aren't necessarily my opinions - although there have been a few cases where I agree.  Obviously I like the forum otherwise I wouldn't spend as much time on it as I do.  I also appreciate the knowledge and experience of those who contribute.  Next time I will keep the criticisms about credibility to myself.  And believe me, I am fully aware of my own credibility issues.

We don't mind discussing credibility, Doug.  Its a fair question, and most people here can hold their own in any dialogue.  Its just telling people that they shouldnt express their opinions for fear that someone might think that the site is less credible as a result.

And you shouldnt feel the need to edit your own opinion either.  You definitely have created some of the best content and interaction on the site yourself.  Let the reasonable opinions be expressed.  If they are wrong, someone will point it out.  The process self corrects, Ive discovered.

Dialogue works.

But it can't happen without differing points of view-----Including your friends who doubt the credibility of the site.  Its all good, and part of the process.  The proof is in the pudding anyways.

I agree, Stephen, that dialogue works, as long as those who participate in the dialogue are accountable for their statements and positions.  When content & opinion is posted anonymously it lacks credibility, because the author, for whatever reason, can hide behind an online nickname rather than standing behind what he/she says.

I suspect the intellectual quality of the dialogue and credibility of the participants would increase if there were no anonymous Metro Jacksonville's discussion forum posts. 

[Lunican]

I thought so too, but then I saw the discussions on facebook. Apparently using ones real identity has no bearing on the intellectual quality of a discussion.

[peestandingup]

I thought so too, but then I saw the discussions on facebook. Apparently using ones real identity has no bearing on the intellectual quality of a discussion.

Eh, that's Facebook for you though. Which has really turned into Retardville USA, esp now that its so popular & mainstream. Back in 2006/2007 it was alright because most people were either students or worked for some of the bigger companies (you had to to be able to even make a profile).

Anyways, I think its really all about your clientele I guess is my point.

[dougskiles]

I thought so too, but then I saw the discussions on facebook. Apparently using ones real identity has no bearing on the intellectual quality of a discussion.

Perhaps not, but it makes some people think twice about what they write.  When I joined, my primary reason for using my name was so that I would not be tempted to write something that I am not willing to stand behind (and to take criticism when I write something stupid).  It wasn't so that I would seem more credible to others, it was a way for me to police my own actions.

[cityimrov]

Jacksonville is not a miserable city.  Well, a successful city (in terms of global and monetary power)?  Not really.  But miserable?  Definitely not. 

I remember reading a story a while back about a group of herders who live in Mongolia.  They live in tents, herded sheep all day, and live a very simple lifestyle.  At the end, the author concluded that they lived a much happier life than he did in New York City.  They were poorer and had less money (compared to the rest of the world) but in a way, they also had less complexities.  Plus the landscape they lived in was gorgeous. 

I think Jacksonville is a city designed and made for people who want to live a simple life.  No frills or complexities, just the basics.  Some people live a life so basic they don't need nor want anyone else to interfere with it.  Their joy in life can be though of spending hours in the car, alone, singing their favorite tunes while driving and coming home from work. 

Metrojacksonville?  I think it's a place where people want to insert some complexities in parts of the city.  I don't think I've seen this website advocate changing the city from Northside all the way to Westside to be a major metropolitan cosmopolitan.  What I do see it trying to do is to change pockets of this city to be a small walkable place with some sustainable places to work and live for those who don't like singing their favorite tunes while driving at 9AM traffic. 

[ChriswUfGator]

These kinds of responses are why many people who I respect in Jacksonville do not give Metro Jacksonville the credibility that many here think it has.

I am just passing along some opinions that I have heard from friends.  They aren't necessarily my opinions - although there have been a few cases where I agree.  Obviously I like the forum otherwise I wouldn't spend as much time on it as I do.  I also appreciate the knowledge and experience of those who contribute.  Next time I will keep the criticisms about credibility to myself.  And believe me, I am fully aware of my own credibility issues.

We don't mind discussing credibility, Doug.  Its a fair question, and most people here can hold their own in any dialogue.  Its just telling people that they shouldnt express their opinions for fear that someone might think that the site is less credible as a result.

And you shouldnt feel the need to edit your own opinion either.  You definitely have created some of the best content and interaction on the site yourself.  Let the reasonable opinions be expressed.  If they are wrong, someone will point it out.  The process self corrects, Ive discovered.

Dialogue works.

But it can't happen without differing points of view-----Including your friends who doubt the credibility of the site.  Its all good, and part of the process.  The proof is in the pudding anyways.

I agree, Stephen, that dialogue works, as long as those who participate in the dialogue are accountable for their statements and positions.  When content & opinion is posted anonymously it lacks credibility, because the author, for whatever reason, can hide behind an online nickname rather than standing behind what he/she says.

I suspect the intellectual quality of the dialogue and credibility of the participants would increase if there were no anonymous Metro Jacksonville's discussion forum posts.  

Meh. Non sequitur. Who's really anonymous?

I know Stephen and the other siteowners in real life, attended the MJ public meetings, have met most of the other regular posters, take part in the facebook pages, for christsakes Stephen wrote a front page article about my great grandfather. I'll tell it to someone's face the same as I will on here, and regularly do. Just because you haven't taken the time to get involved in the MJ community, and meet the board and interact with the rest of your fellow posters in real life, doesn't mean you get to lament a nonexistent cloak of anonymity. Many of us actually know each other. Not my fault you don't come to meetings or events.

And just speaking generally, if anonymity equals no credibility, then maybe you'd care to explain why police departments have an anonymous tip line (e.g., crimstoppers here locally)? Could that be, perhaps, because anonymity actually FURTHERS credibility by allowing people to speak the truth where they otherwise wouldn't?

[ChriswUfGator]

Well he should attend one, he'd certainly get over the misconception that people wouldn't say what they think in person. Lol.

[simms3]

I prefer anonymity.  I think there are four people on this board who know who I am, and two of them are not regular posters.

I also do what I can to be involved, but I'm hundreds of miles away.  I post on here and a boatload of other sites, I write people when I feel it's necessary (I wrote a 10 page report on what I thought the mayoral candidates should focus on and sent it to each one a year + ago), and I just try to stay on top of as many issues in Jacksonville as possible, but my eye is not on moving back any time soon so it's sometimes hard to justify spending any mental energy/time on the city when my sights are set in the opposite direction.

I feel like there are at least a handful of people in my position and I doubt most people want their identities made known.

[ChriswUfGator]

Well he should attend one, he'd certainly get over the misconception that people wouldn't say what they think in person. Lol.

If only Id had anonymity when Eva Ayres came gunning for me......lol.

Yeah that, or an athletic cup...lol

I find people who want to "hold you accountable" for something you said/wrote fall into 2 categories, one runs around saying "I'll sue you." Of course they never will, since there's this nasty little problem with the truth being an absolute defense and this horrid little statute 57.105 that requires them to pay your costs and fees if they did. How unfair! The second group is under the misconception that, if they just look you in the eye and tell you they don't like you, then that is somehow going to matter to you and you'll melt into a pile of water like the witch in Wizard of Oz or something. Well OK then, good luck with that, ROFL...

Then there's a third category that you really don't want to mess with; Drunk old southern women. Now that can get downright frightening! Stephen got punched in the balls! Still wish I'd been there for that meeting...

[Captain Zissou]

I think if you're really involved on metrojax, people will eventually find out who you are.  There are probably 20 people who know who I am on here.  I give out my name willingly.  However, if you're one of the 1 issue posters or just mad at the world people on here (Bostech), I never want you knowing who I am, or where I live.

[duvaldude08]

Wow. The Jags causes us misery. There are other cities whose teams are in much worse shape, but we are miserable. Right> LMAO This stuff cracks me up. All of these different "lists" are ridiculous and contradicting. This is too funny to me.  

[Wacca Pilatka]

I'm glad to let anyone know who I am and interact on Facebook (or in person on the rare times I am in Jacksonville).  I love talking Jacksonville and appreciate the efforts of everyone on here to improve the city's shortcomings and promote its underappreciated assets and heritage.

The only reason I'm Wacca Pilatka on here instead of Dave Damiani is as a nod to Jacksonville history.  That, and Wacca Pilatka sounds euphonic to me.