Who Loves JEA?

[BridgeTroll]

JEA data jackpot!  PDF heaven!  Rules and regs, Annual reports, Quarterly Analysis of Financial Performance, Tarrifs, Bonds, water quality,.... even board meeting minutes!


http://www.jea.com/about/pub/index.asp#board

[uptowngirl]

No facts? Several have posted either the contents of their bills or their actual bill. So it is completely acceptable to pull into BP and put in 5 gallons of gas but be charged for 15 because that is the minimum they expect you to use each fill-up?

It is OK that the pump at BP says you added 15 gallons and charges you for the same, yet your car only holds 12 gallons and your gauge says you only have a 3/4 a tank?


Using the pump analogy you can plainly see the issue. We as consumers should not have to pay for something we are not getting, nor using. If I use 600 gallons of water why should I pay for 1,000 gallons? I don't pay for a full tank of gas when I do not need a full tank of gas.

If I am late by 5 days on my car payment I would pay a late fee of $45, not three car payments as a deposit. The bank would not come and boot my car because I was late 5 days.

Why should JEA?

It really is common sense, I am suprised some are having such a hard time seeing that.

[BridgeTroll]

If I am late by 5 days on my car payment I would pay a late fee of $45, not three car payments as a deposit. The bank would not come and boot my car because I was late 5 days.

Why should JEA?

JEA also charges a late fee... and they are required to charge a deposit if you have trouble paying your obligations on time.

The JEA has a formula that gives all customers 1,000 points, but they lose 100 points for each bounced check and another 100 points if the become two months behind and their power is shut off. If a customer's points drop below 800, the utility is assess a deposit.

The reason may be... and this is just conjecture... Your car can be repossesed, your home can be forclosed, collateral can be confiscated if you fail to pay on various other loans.

In the case of electricity and water... It has already been used.  They cannot reclaim what has already been used.  You are purchasing water and electricity on credit.

It is common practice for utilities through the entire US. 

Here is a Sacramento utility...

http://www.smud.org/en/residential/rates/Documents/Rule%202-06.pdf

Deposit Required Where Credit Not Established or Maintained
Where a customer or an applicant for service does not satisfactorily establish and maintain credit in accordance with Sections E and F, a deposit may be required as security for the payment of bills. The District may, in accordance with Rule and Regulation 11, discontinue service if customer fails to make such deposit as requested by the District. The amount of such deposit for residential and commercial customers shall be the greater of 1) twice the highest estimated monthly bill or twice the highest actual customer bill, or 2) twice the average residential class monthly bill for the preceding three years, rounded to the nearest
$10, as determined and set annually by the District.

[ChriswUfGator]

Bridge Troll for the 457'th time, JEA is not required to charge a deposit at all. They ARE NOT STATE REGULATED.

None of these rules you've been randomly posting have any bearing on JEA. JEA routinely exceeds the state deposit guidelines anyway. Would you like me to start posting the rules and regulations for utilities in Indonesia in this thread and pretending they apply to JEA? Because that's what you're doing.

This is exactly what you sound like; I mean this scene was written expressly for you and Westsider;

http://www.youtube.com/v/e1fKzw05Q5A

[BridgeTroll]

You might be wrong Chris...

Found this right on the JEA website...


JEA's governing body consists of a seven-member Board of Directors appointed by the Mayor and confirmed by the City Council. JEA is not subject to state regulation, except for certain environmental and health matters, power plant location, electric safety and electric rate structure matters. JEA’s Board of Directors may be contacted via e-mail at jeaboard@jea.com.

Looks like they ARE subject to state regulations after all...

http://www.jea.com/about/index.asp

[BridgeTroll]

I agree Stephen... and I think Chris and yourself are the perfect pair to begin a nationwide reformation of utility deposit practices.  I showed where a very similar utility in California has a practice very similar to JEA... It is common practice and you can bet it has withstood court challenges.  

[ChriswUfGator]

You might be wrong Chris...

Found this right on the JEA website...


JEA's governing body consists of a seven-member Board of Directors appointed by the Mayor and confirmed by the City Council. JEA is not subject to state regulation, except for certain environmental and health matters, power plant location, electric safety and electric rate structure matters. JEA’s Board of Directors may be contacted via e-mail at jeaboard@jea.com.

Looks like they ARE subject to state regulations after all...

http://www.jea.com/about/index.asp

Yeah, except I'm not wrong. Here's the State itself saying it doesn't regulate the rates of municipally owned utilities;

Well, since someone mentioned BridgeTroll's rather troubled relationship with the facts...

Direct from the Florida Public Utilities Commission;

What the PSC Does Not Regulate:

-Rates and adequacy of services provided by municipally
owned and rural cooperative electric utilities, except for
safety oversight.
-Electrical wiring inside the customer’s building
-Taxes on the electric bill
-Physical placement of transmission and distribution
lines
-Damage claims
-Right of way
-Physical placement or relocation of utility poles

http://www.psc.state.fl.us/publications/consumer/brochure/When_to_Call_the_PSC.pdf

Seems like BT doesn't research his claims very well. The truth is that the state does not have the authority to regulate JEA's billing or rates, and accordingly we have no state protection when dealing with JEA on billing issues or deposit requirements. They can do whatever they damn well please, and that's exactly what they do.

How in his extensive research on the business practices of "every public utility" could he have missed this?

Obviously, we already covered all of that back on page 3 of this thread, and you already went down in flames on this point. You're certainly welcome to keep re-arguing it, I'll just keep re-posting the docs from the State's own PUC demonstrating you're wrong, Fine by me, but you're starting to look a bit silly.

[BridgeTroll]

Why not a million dollars?  Looks like it is regulated!

This looks similar to the JEA policy...

http://www.smud.org/en/residential/rates/Documents/Rule%202-06.pdf

Deposit Required Where Credit Not Established or Maintained
Where a customer or an applicant for service does not satisfactorily establish and maintain credit in accordance with Sections E and F, a deposit may be required as security for the payment of bills. The District may, in accordance with Rule and Regulation 11, discontinue service if customer fails to make such deposit as requested by the District. The amount of such deposit for residential and commercial customers shall be the greater of 1) twice the highest estimated monthly bill or twice the highest actual customer bill, or 2) twice the average residential class monthly bill for the preceding three years, rounded to the nearest
$10, as determined and set annually by the District.

[BridgeTroll]

You might be wrong Chris...

Found this right on the JEA website...


JEA's governing body consists of a seven-member Board of Directors appointed by the Mayor and confirmed by the City Council. JEA is not subject to state regulation, except for certain environmental and health matters, power plant location, electric safety and electric rate structure matters. JEA’s Board of Directors may be contacted via e-mail at jeaboard@jea.com.

Looks like they ARE subject to state regulations after all...

http://www.jea.com/about/index.asp

Yeah, except I'm not wrong. Here's the State itself saying it doesn't regulate the rates of municipally owned utilities;

Well, since someone mentioned BridgeTroll's rather troubled relationship with the facts...

Direct from the Florida Public Utilities Commission;

What the PSC Does Not Regulate:

-Rates and adequacy of services provided by municipally
owned and rural cooperative electric utilities, except for
safety oversight.
-Electrical wiring inside the customer’s building
-Taxes on the electric bill
-Physical placement of transmission and distribution
lines
-Damage claims
-Right of way
-Physical placement or relocation of utility poles

http://www.psc.state.fl.us/publications/consumer/brochure/When_to_Call_the_PSC.pdf

Seems like BT doesn't research his claims very well. The truth is that the state does not have the authority to regulate JEA's billing or rates, and accordingly we have no state protection when dealing with JEA on billing issues or deposit requirements. They can do whatever they damn well please, and that's exactly what they do.

How in his extensive research on the business practices of "every public utility" could he have missed this?

Obviously, we already covered all of that back on page 3 of this thread, and you already went down in flames on this point. You're certainly welcome to keep re-arguing it, I'll just keep re-posting the docs from the State's own PUC demonstrating you're wrong, Fine by me, but you're starting to look a bit silly.

Looks like there is a conflict between the two sites.  I suggest you find a clearer document.

[BridgeTroll]

This is why no one takes republicans seriously anymore.  Because whenever it comes to bilking the taxpayers, the supposed 'conservatives' are the first ones to the front of the line demanding the right to be victimized by fraudulent government spending.

Thats your reply?


http://www.smud.org/en/residential/rates/Documents/Rule%202-06.pdf

[ChriswUfGator]

You might be wrong Chris...

Found this right on the JEA website...


JEA's governing body consists of a seven-member Board of Directors appointed by the Mayor and confirmed by the City Council. JEA is not subject to state regulation, except for certain environmental and health matters, power plant location, electric safety and electric rate structure matters. JEA’s Board of Directors may be contacted via e-mail at jeaboard@jea.com.

Looks like they ARE subject to state regulations after all...

http://www.jea.com/about/index.asp

Yeah, except I'm not wrong. Here's the State itself saying it doesn't regulate the rates of municipally owned utilities;

Well, since someone mentioned BridgeTroll's rather troubled relationship with the facts...

Direct from the Florida Public Utilities Commission;

What the PSC Does Not Regulate:

-Rates and adequacy of services provided by municipally
owned and rural cooperative electric utilities, except for
safety oversight.
-Electrical wiring inside the customer’s building
-Taxes on the electric bill
-Physical placement of transmission and distribution
lines
-Damage claims
-Right of way
-Physical placement or relocation of utility poles

http://www.psc.state.fl.us/publications/consumer/brochure/When_to_Call_the_PSC.pdf

Seems like BT doesn't research his claims very well. The truth is that the state does not have the authority to regulate JEA's billing or rates, and accordingly we have no state protection when dealing with JEA on billing issues or deposit requirements. They can do whatever they damn well please, and that's exactly what they do.

How in his extensive research on the business practices of "every public utility" could he have missed this?

Obviously, we already covered all of that back on page 3 of this thread, and you already went down in flames on this point. You're certainly welcome to keep re-arguing it, I'll just keep re-posting the docs from the State's own PUC demonstrating you're wrong, Fine by me, but you're starting to look a bit silly.

Looks like there is a conflict between the two sites.  I suggest you find a clearer document.

You're starting to sound just plain dumb...

Last I checked, the State government trumps local government, no? My documentation is perfectly clear, and is directly from the state. Yours is just from the JEA website, which hardly has the authority to trump the State government. Surely being the expert consititutional scholar that you are, you would know that?

Seems like you're the one that needs clearer documentation. Of course you won't find any, since we both know I am right. So start Googling.

[BridgeTroll]

Click here Chris...

http://www.psc.state.fl.us/utilities/mcd/index.aspx

Do a search for companies regulated by the Public Service Commision.

About two thirds of the way down 3 letters will appear.  Care to guess those three letters?

[ChriswUfGator]

Click here Chris...

http://www.psc.state.fl.us/utilities/mcd/index.aspx

Do a search for companies regulated by the Public Service Commision.

About two thirds of the way down 3 letters will appear.  Care to guess those three letters?

The PSC doesn't regulate JEA's rates or customer deposits. They regulate JEA's interconnect agreements with other utilities, and aspects of the generation business that affect other utilities. They also review the utility's hurricane/emergency management plans. A quick search of the PSC's history with JEA (which you clearly did not bother to perform) would have shown you this;

http://www.psc.state.fl.us/utilities/mcd/associateddockets.aspx?compcode=EM862&docType=closed&count=21

Or, don't just take my word for it, why don't you post anything from the PSC saying they regulate JEA rates?

(Hint: They don't)

[BridgeTroll]

I concede.(PSC rate regulation)  This link makes it clear... at least to me.

http://www.floridapsc.com/consumers/complaints/index.aspx

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

my reply to what?

You provided an example of another utility which is doing to same dishonest thing for the same dishonest reasons, and you seem to be saying that it justifies it.

I suppose that its ok for me to mug you as long as I can reasonably demonstrate that I followed the same basic procedure as a similar mugging in a similar neighborhood.

Like I said, Volunteer Victims social mixer at the Tea Party Express.  Westsider is bringing the PBR and Bridge Troll will bring the cheetos.

Here's one for you smart guy:  Find one, just one example of a utility company that does business in a way that would meet your esteemed approval.  I'm sure there's one actual golden nugget out there amongst all the other gold covered shit-piles.