Who Loves JEA?

[BridgeTroll]

I was hoping for something more sinister actually...

[BridgeTroll]

I was hoping for something more sinister actually...

I didnt mean that post to be an answer to your question.

The explanations provided in the article for the surpluses seem reasonable at first glance.

[BridgeTroll]

Why does this...

JEA follows financial practices that ensure: the
security of the bondholders’ investments; the
ability to borrow funds at the lowest possible
cost; and an annual contribution to the City of
Jacksonville.

not jibe with this?

It will take a class action suit to decide whether or not it was illegal because of the byzantine accounting of the organization, but it is definitely against the mandate of the JEA charter.

Just trying to understand...

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Based on the article you posted on the surplus, I'm gathering that you disagree with them keeping a surplus at all, that it should be divided up among the customers.

You may not have to buy gas at the pump, but a lot of us do.   Those prices are based on the current market price of crude.  They may have a surplus of 500k gallons that was paid for when barrels were $65 - Today, the barrels are trading for $105 (the numbers are made up) so the price we pay at the pump goes up to reflect that.  It doesn't come down nearly as fast, but we pay for the volatility of the market from day to day.

Now imagine if JEA were to do that!

 

[BridgeTroll]

I was hoping for something more sinister actually...

I didnt mean that post to be an answer to your question.

The explanations provided in the article for the surpluses seem reasonable at first glance.

Its not the fact that they had surpluses.

According to the spirit of the Charter, the surpluses are supposed to go back into the general fund to lower the cost of energy for the consumers.

In this particular incident, the director is saying, "well we were going to spend that on an outside investment that fell through, but we are going to keep the money and raise everyone's rates anyways, because we want to buy some other things in the future.  We arent sure what those are, but we'll know when we see them."

Its completely contrary to the spirit of the Charter.

They said they were going to need it for future power plants right?

"Even though we won't go forward with the Taylor Energy Plant, we will have to build other plants," Dickenson said.

When asked if the huge increase that customers are paying to cool their homes this summer would pay for the other projects and whether JEA is bringing in more money than ever before, JEA said yes, but added that it's costing much more to keep the electricity on.

"It actually cost more money in the summertime for our fuel," Dickenson said.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I'm assuming this is the charter that you're referring to:

http://www.jea.com/about/pub/downloads/treepowe.pdf

JEA follows financial practices that ensure: the
security of the bondholders’ investments; the
ability to borrow funds at the lowest possible
cost; and an annual contribution to the City of
Jacksonville.

From the meeting notes:

2.  In responce to Mrs. ?Whatley's December 2009 request, Debra Gras handed out an Office of General Counsel review and opinion memo on guidelines and limitations in the JEA Charter regarding additional methos of raising revenue.....  Advertising on jea.com was also generally discussed.

and....

3.  Current JEA credit ratings were discussed......

How are either of these not 'in the spirit of the charter?'  Keep the credit rating up so the bondholders make more, and find alternative streams of revenue to increase their 'surpluses.' 

Mybe rather than chastising me, you should take an e-course in business management and re-read some of your own 'contrary to your own point' postings.  I hear the University of Phoenix has a good one. 

[ChriswUfGator]

Based on the article you posted on the surplus, I'm gathering that you disagree with them keeping a surplus at all, that it should be divided up among the customers.

You may not have to buy gas at the pump, but a lot of us do.   Those prices are based on the current market price of crude.  They may have a surplus of 500k gallons that was paid for when barrels were $65 - Today, the barrels are trading for $105 (the numbers are made up) so the price we pay at the pump goes up to reflect that.  It doesn't come down nearly as fast, but we pay for the volatility of the market from day to day.

Now imagine if JEA were to do that!

JEA does worse.

At least at the gas station, you have free market competition, which keeps prices in line. And when you buy gas, you pay for the gas you buy. You don't have to pay for the gas and then get 20 more things tacked onto your bill to pay for the tanks at the gas station, or the new pumps they're planning to buy 20 years from now, only to decide they didn't want the new pumps after all but they're going to keep your money anywhow, and you don't have to pay for all of that despite their making a hefty profit on their sales as well. You just pay for your gas and go.

JEA is ridiculous, and your arguments in defense of their policies are running out of gas. Surely you must realize by now that their policies are abnormal for a utility company, and that their treatment of customers is directly contrary to their charter? Why are you defending the indefensible?

[BridgeTroll]

They were changed to remove the obligation to the public, and I am hunting down a paper copy of the old charters.

Sounds good... then a comparison can be done.

Interestingly, the City Council, by statute has total legal authority over the JEA.

They could put an end to this deposit practice with a simple vote.

Why does the city council not do this?  Let me ask again... Why is JEA's deposit practice more onerous than other utilities?  Is there a side by side comparison out there?

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

JEA does worse.

Yeah, but.  They saved you money over Orlando didn't they?

At least at the gas station, you have free market competition, which keeps prices in line. And when you buy gas, you pay for the gas you buy. You don't have to pay for the gas and then get 20 more things tacked onto your bill to pay for the tanks at the gas station, or the new pumps they're planning to buy 20 years from now, only to decide they didn't want the new pumps after all but they're going to keep your money anywhow, and you don't have to pay for all of that despite their making a hefty profit on their sales as well. You just pay for your gas and go.

Yeah, but.  They funnel all of the taxes through their price, just like JEA - difference is, you don't see a schedule at the pump listing the amount of all the taxes that you're actually paying.  Plus, the price you see at the pump reflects the trading price of crude oil that day - stuff that they will have to buy in the future - not what it costs them.  

JEA is ridiculous, and your arguments in defense of their policies are running out of gas. Surely you must realize by now that their policies are abnormal for a utility company, and that their treatment of customers is directly contrary to their charter? Why are you defending the indefensible?

Thier policies ad practices seem to be the norm rather than the exception - based on all of the information that I've read here.  All that I've seen charge an initial deposit and a delinquency deposit.  All pass the taxes directly through to the customer.  All have a price that is pretty much in line with the others.  Seems like SOP, now whether you agree or disagree with their policies is another fact altogether, but for the most part - it's all fairly transparent.

All I've seen to the contrary are stories - no facts, just stories.  The bill you posted actually proved that JEA is cheaper than Orlando - that was a fact.

[BridgeTroll]

Found this right on the JEA website...

JEA's governing body consists of a seven-member Board of Directors appointed by the Mayor and confirmed by the City Council. JEA is not subject to state regulation, except for certain environmental and health matters, power plant location, electric safety and electric rate structure matters. JEA’s Board of Directors may be contacted via e-mail at jeaboard@jea.com.

Looks like they ARE subject to state regulations after all...

http://www.jea.com/about/index.asp

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Probably because most of the Councilpeople arent aware of this particular power.  Maybe you should tell them how much smarter you are because you figured all this out, and none of them had a clue

Every year the JEA shares some of their ill gotten profit with the Council.  Wow!  Proof?  Oh you probably mean the taxes that JEA charges us instead of the city, so what?  Pick your poison

I would be willing to bet that the majority of the Council is unaware that this is required by the State Charter, since they dress it up as a gift every year.  Nonsensical.  What are you even saying?

Lord knows, to tell TUFSU tell it, they are handing over grandma's engagement ring to the infidels when in fact this is a prerequisite for their existence.

Also the Council has a dirty little hand in the pocket as well.  In order to pretend that they werent going to raise millage rate taxes, the council simply raised the rate on the JEA, which immediately passed on the cost to the same taxpayers.  as stated above - pick your poison.

I guess we're doomed either way, City's going to hike up taxes, JEA's going to raise rates every year, Unemplyment is at it's highest in years, global warming just caused us the coldest winter on record and Charlie Sheen's shenanigans is going to cost me new episodes of Two and a Half Men.  I guess its time to start the revolution.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

.....go dawgs!

That's pretty insulting.  If you're going to mock, then do it correctly - Go Tigers (Clemson, not Auburn - which would be War Eagles anyhow, but I'm sure you already knew that)

[BridgeTroll]

Should be some good info here...  JEA 2009 anual report

http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/fc2aa9f8#

[bankon1t]

I'm sure this is probably old news, but there is on article on MSNBC.com listing U.S. cities with the worst drinking water... Guess who's part of the top 10?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41354370/ns/business-oil_and_energy/

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

given the intelligence of your posts, I assumed you were a Georgia fan, my apologies.  I didnt realize that Tigers fans grads were on an equal footing.  I will take note.

I had to fix that for you.