JEA Bill

[uptowngirl]

They finally agreed to send someone out, as we were on the phone their "reading" was not matching the meter.

Even the person on the phone said something does not seem right, as this was triple usage from anything over the last 12 months!

[cityimrov]

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=531927

JEA board: Little hope for rate reduction for Gerdau Ameristeel
09/22/2010
by Max Marbut
Staff Writer

At the beginning of Tuesday’s meeting of JEA’s board of directors, City Council liaison Stephen Joost made a plea for a reduction in the price that Gerdau Ameristeel, a steel mill in Baldwin, pays for electricity.

He echoed points made in a memo sent by First Coast Manufacturers Association President Lad Daniels to JEA board members Monday and reported Tuesday in the Daily Record.

“I view JEA as an electric company able to help with economic development,” said Joost.

He also told the board that Gerdau Ameristeel might secure a contract to produce materials for the Panama Canal expansion project that could mean as much as $200 million in increased production.


................................


JEA Managing Director and CEO Jim Dickenson presented data to board members detailing Gerdau’s current rate structure and consumption history. He told the board that Gerdau had been granted a discount per kilowatt hour based on the cost of service.

“Their load is the same as 20,000 residential accounts,” although it costs less to service large commercial accounts, said Dickenson. “But everybody pays the same fuel rate. A ton of coal is a ton of coal.”

Dickenson said part of the discount is based on JEA’s ability to interrupt service to the steel mill during periods of peak electrical consumption throughout the system, as in the case of very hot or very cold days.

“We are able to interrupt those customers instead of building more capacity or buying more electricity” from other utilities, said Dickenson.

He said Gerdau’s concept in requesting the additional rate reduction is that the mill is using electricity that JEA doesn’t need and the company doesn’t want to contribute to fixed costs, including debt service.

According to Dickenson’s report, Gerdau accounts for 3 percent of JEA’s electrical load but its payment for electricity accounts for 9 percent of JEA’s debt service.

I know someone who works for JEA and according to him Ameristeel is the largest consumer of power in the city.  They use quite a lot of power - around 12MW or so.  I hear JEA had to devote an entire team of resources just running power to that facility.  Something about when that facility is on, it wrecks havoc in the electric grid.  Form JEA perspective, it sounds like Ameristeel is a headache rather than a benefit which may be why they don't like working with them.  

[duvaldude08]

I have been VERY fournate not to have any issues with JEA. My parents have not either, and they have a 3 bedroom house. Their bill is never over $200.00. Im so parnoid, I always check my meter. I subtract the usage from last months usage and input that number in the calculator on their website and it will tell you exactly what your bill is (at that time). Ive been using it for years and its 100% percent accurate. I usually check it mid month to make sure things dont look crazy, or if I need to decrease my usage. This way Im not sticker shocked when I get the bill.

[uptowngirl]

My bill is never over $300 a month, and I have not changed my usage. Obviously they do not check meters, and our meter did not match what they had....that speaks volumes.

[ChriswUfGator]

No they don't check the meters anymore, they have this HAL2000 computer that "projects" what they think your usage is based on nobody-knows-what, so that they could lay off all the meter readers and cut their costs. So you have to bust them on it by photographing your meter readouts for two months on the dates your bills drop and then wait a year for a refund of all the money they overcharged you.

Wonder how many people are going through this? Seems like class-action territory...

[Dog Walker]

I think that they are in the process of changing all of the meters to digital meters that can be read remotely. If you have one of the older meters with needles and dials rather than a digital read-out you might ask if it is remote read.

[ChriswUfGator]

My meter is the old style meter and my electric bills didn't skyrocket like some people are reporting when they laid off the meter readers, rather, I usually have bills <$150 in winter which offsets my $350+ bills during summer. After they quit reading the meters and started estimating, surprise surprise my bill is now the same in winter as it was in summer even though I'm using 1/3'rd of the power. I'm one of this weirdos who likes it cold so I use very little power in winter.

Also, all you guys with the heat pumps running 24/7, here's the deal with that. They are only efficient when the inside temperature and outside temperatures are within a 20-30 degree spread of each other. Beyond that, they are horribly inefficient and will run constantly for very little benefit. That's just the limitations of the technology. Most people like it about 70 inside so the truth is that when the outside temps are below about 45 you're actually much better off just shutting down the compressor and letting the electric heat strips cycle every so often instead of having the compressor laboring constantly. You are using a lot more power at that point because of the inefficiency.

[stjr]

Chris, this article from Wikipedia suggests heat pumps are conventionally efficient down to as low as 17 degrees, and with modifications, even -13 degrees.  I have generally been told by HVAC locals that they are good down to around the mid to high 20's at least.  Not sure if other factors, such as humidity and desired inside temp effect the range, but it appears that may be the case from the full Wikipedia article.

Air-source heat pumps

Air source heat pumps are relatively easy (and inexpensive) to install and have therefore historically been the most widely used heat pump type. However, they suffer limitations due to their use of the outside air as a heat source or sink. The higher temperature differential during periods of extreme cold or heat leads to declining efficiency, as explained above. In mild weather, COP may be around 4.0, while at temperatures below around −8 °C (17 °F) an air-source heat pump can achieve a COP of 2.5 or better, which is considerably more than the COP that may be achieved by conventional heating systems. The average COP over seasonal variation is typically 2.5-2.8,[9] with exceptional models able to exceed 6.0 (2.8 kW).[10]

Air source heat pumps for cold climates

At least two manufacturers[11] [12]are selling heat pumps that maintain better heating performance at lower outside temperatures than conventional air source heat pumps. These low temperature optimized models make heat pumps more practical for cold climates. In areas where only one fossil fuel is currently available (e.g. heating oil; no natural gas pipes available) these heat pumps could be used as an alternative, supplemental heat source to reduce a building's direct dependence on fossil fuel. Depending on fuel and electricity prices, using the heat pump for heating may be less expensive than fossil fuel. A backup, fossil-fuel heat source may still be required for the coldest days.

The heating performance of low temperature optimized heat pumps still declines as the temperature drops, but the threshold at which the decline starts is lower than conventional pumps, as shown in the following table (temperatures are approximate and may vary by manufacturer and model):

Air Source Heat Pump Type /   Full heat output at or above this temperature /   Heat output down to 60% of maximum at
Conventional /   47 °F (8.3 °C) /   17 °F (-8.3 °C)
Low Temp Optimized /   14 °F (-10 °C) /   -13 °F (-25 °C)

Full article at:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump

[ChriswUfGator]

I know that's what the manufacturers claim, but if you watch what happens when it gets down to about 40 the thing runs constantly and can't keep it a solid 70 inside. When it gets to the point where the heat pump is running 45 minutes out of the hour, you're to the point where letting the heat strips cycle would probably save you money.

If you think about it for a minute, you'd realize that heat pumps are effectively useless by at least the mid-30 degree range, because they turn into blocks of ice and lose all efficiency at heat transfer at that point. I'll photograph one for you frozen over when we have another cold snap, you'll see my point. People up north where it's cold longer than here know better than this, they all have separate ac and heat systems.

I'm not a scientist, these are just my observations, but in my experience heat pumps are much less efficient than other sources under about 40 degrees.

[Lunican]

Pros and Cons of Heat Pumps

Heat pumps can help consumers save on utilities, but they have limitations. First, they tend to be somewhat ineffective in any climate where the outdoor air temperature falls near or below freezing on a regular basis. This is because moving heat from a very cold area to a hotter one takes more energy than moving heat between two areas with a more moderate temperature difference. There's also more heat available outside in a moderate climate than in a cold climate. It's important to note that even in a cold climate, there's still heat in the outside air to be pumped indoors, but the unit needs to work harder to extract the heat that is available. Supplemental energy may be required to make the heat pump produce enough warmth to comfortably heat your home when the temperature falls below freezing.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-improvement/heating-and-cooling/heat-pump4.htm

[duvaldude08]

why  are there TWO Jea topics going on talking about the same thing. One of these need to be locked.

[Debbie Thompson]

While the lessons in JEA politics from Stephen, Redneck, ChrisUFGator and Stjr are facinating and educational :-), to get back to the more practical, and ways to reduce our electric bill, no matter why it's too high.....I found this useful information at: http://homeimprovement.lovetoknow.com/How_to_Winterize_Windows_with_Plastic

How to Winterize Windows with Plastic
Winterizing your windows with plastic is best accomplished with two people. You should be able to winterize all the windows in your home within a few hours. Before beginning, measure your windows and gather the following supplies:

•Window caulk
•Caulk gun
•Weather stripping
•Plastic sheeting sized to your windows
•Heavy-duty double sided tape
•Hair dryer
To begin, stop any drafts that are coming in with weather stripping and caulk.

1.Peel the backing off of the weather stripping and use it to seal the edges of the windows. Press it firmly along the edge of the glass and sill.
2.Locate any loose window panes and have your assistant push them until the gap between the pane and its edge is visible. Apply a thin bead of caulk into these cracks and allow the window pane to settle back into place.
3.Place a row of double sided tape at the top of the window approximately 1 inch in from the glass.
4.Stretch the plastic across the top of the window tightly, pressing it onto the tape.
5.Run a line of tape down the sides of the window sill, 1 inch from the glass, and a final row of tape across the bottom edge.
6.Pull the plastic down firmly, smoothing it onto the tape on the sides and across the bottom to seal.
7.Turn the hair dryer on high heat, and aim it at the plastic to shrink it. Move the hair dryer back and forth in across the plastic continuously until the plastic shrinks to a form a tight sheet across your window with no wrinkles or creases. Avoid placing the hair dryer too close to the plastic or you may burn through.

[scifinutapril]

Now, after a year has gone by for these people and after 6 rate raises, how are people fairing? I am new here and find JEA a Jacksonville authorized extortionist. What do you say to a boycott, or maybe an anti-trust lawsuit on behalf of the citizen's of Jacksonville? Did you know it is illegal to have a monopoly in the UNITED STATES!!! What if anything are your local politician's doing to remedy the issues. I bet, nothing, because the utility is GOD says so!!! We have been without power for a month waiting on JEA and the antiquated system you all have for asking for assistance. I just wrote the Mayor and the Governor's Offices to complain everyone should do the same here is a copy of what I sent the Mayor "I would like to know if you intend on doing anything about the MONOPOLY going by the name of JEA! They answer to no one, they care about no one, and they serve no one. Service is a term they bandy about, but do little of. I here from everyone even JEA employee's about how little they care about them, and the status quot is letting them get away with sticking it to the poor and those whom try to replace them as the God on high in Jacksonville, FL. I moved here from California over a month ago and have found it hard to have the power and water turned on to the house we are supposed to be renting. We have had to rely on the charity of others while we wait to get the utilities on. Where are we supposed to stay while JEA sends us 5 times to their offices to jump hurdle after hurdle. While they come to the house to remove meters, rather than turning them on, so they can charge us for them to be reinstalled? How can they be allowed to run unchecked and raise the rates 6 times in a year? Do you not feel for the poor, do you not give a damn about how we are supposed to survive in this city? Also, the system you have for getting assistance with utility extortion deposits are unfair and time consuming. To have to dial and dial a phone number that is never available for weeks on end, and have someone from next door try once and get through, is ludicrous. It should be first come first served. WHAT DO YOU INTEND TO DO!!!!"

[tufsu1]

please provide sources for the 6 rate increases that happened this year....because all I know is, with the exception of 2 months, my utility bills have been lower in 2011 than in 2010.

[hypnotoad]

Now, after a year has gone by for these people and after 6 rate raises, how are people fairing? I am new here and find JEA a Jacksonville authorized extortionist. What do you say to a boycott, or maybe an anti-trust lawsuit on behalf of the citizen's of Jacksonville? Did you know it is illegal to have a monopoly in the UNITED STATES!!! What if anything are your local politician's doing to remedy the issues. I bet, nothing, because the utility is GOD says so!!! We have been without power for a month waiting on JEA and the antiquated system you all have for asking for assistance. I just wrote the Mayor and the Governor's Offices to complain everyone should do the same here is a copy of what I sent the Mayor "I would like to know if you intend on doing anything about the MONOPOLY going by the name of JEA! They answer to no one, they care about no one, and they serve no one. Service is a term they bandy about, but do little of. I here from everyone even JEA employee's about how little they care about them, and the status quot is letting them get away with sticking it to the poor and those whom try to replace them as the God on high in Jacksonville, FL. I moved here from California over a month ago and have found it hard to have the power and water turned on to the house we are supposed to be renting. We have had to rely on the charity of others while we wait to get the utilities on. Where are we supposed to stay while JEA sends us 5 times to their offices to jump hurdle after hurdle. While they come to the house to remove meters, rather than turning them on, so they can charge us for them to be reinstalled? How can they be allowed to run unchecked and raise the rates 6 times in a year? Do you not feel for the poor, do you not give a damn about how we are supposed to survive in this city? Also, the system you have for getting assistance with utility extortion deposits are unfair and time consuming. To have to dial and dial a phone number that is never available for weeks on end, and have someone from next door try once and get through, is ludicrous. It should be first come first served. WHAT DO YOU INTEND TO DO!!!!"

I feel for you April and you're right JEA is total bullshit.  With no competition there is no incentive for them to lower rates.  Also, watch out for the "residential deposit".  That is a fee you will find on your bill if you've had any "infractions" in the year (i.e., being late on a payment or having service turned off).  Last winter I got 700 and 800 dollar electric bills (1200 sq foot house).  It was my first winter in an older house and my AC was running 24/7 but it wouldn't get over 48 degrees.  I had no idea the house was like that so I was panicking.  Last winter was MUCH colder -- many more freeze days.  I figured out my house wasn't warming was because all the heat was going out of the roof because there was no insulation in the attic.  Anyway though, because of those ginormous bills, I couldn't pay in time, and JEA shut off my service for all of 12 hours.  A few months later I ended up with a $950 bill and I was like what the hell is this??  The Residential Deposit (such word choice) is calculated as 2 times your average monthly bill.  So all of a sudden one month you will get a bill that is 3 times your normal bill. They just make this shit up as they go.  They charge whatever they want.  And no one does anything about it.  They ARE extortionists because they have control over your access to an essential service.  They turn off the water when they turn off the electricity too.  This should not happen when someone is a month or even 3 months late imho.  In some places it's illegal to shut off electricity in the winter because people may die.  Sometimes older folks deal with a similar problem here in the summer -- no AC and heat stroke.  There should be choices for energy providers.  There should also be compassion and understanding that running water and electricity are essential these days.

I'm sorry you're dealing this.  Welcome to Jacksonville!  I'm glad you have some good people to help you out.  I have no idea how one would go about getting this JEA situation rectified though.