Is Springfield Regressing??

[peestandingup]

I know that's sort of a matter of opinion & that pretty much every area has "regressed" in some respect, but to me (and to many of you I'm sure) it seems that SPR suffered a huge blow from this economy & also from the speculative build up from a lot of investors (mostly from out of town who aren't "in touch" with the community) thinking it was going to be the next Buckhead in the last decade, bought high, crashed hard & are now just sitting on their property letting it rot.

Most of the buildings on Main look like a bomb went off in them. I've been looking at different commercial properties lately & its kinda shocking (especially considering what it was just a few years ago when it seemed to be coming around). Mostly just peering through windows, but I did go inside where the old Boomtown used to be (1714 Main St N) & the celing was literally caved in, there was water/mold damage everywhere, etc. There were even weeds growing inside the place. Oh, and this place is currently listed for rent for a cool $10 a square foot. What's wrong with this picture??

My question is, why is the city not taking these places from their dead beat owners & giving them to people who will actually keep them up?? It seems completely foolish & a total waste of resources to spend the Millions they have on fixing up Main street & the sidewalks just to let the buildings decay. I mean, that's not a very good investment of their money, and it's certainly not good for the area.

So what do you guys think? Are we just outta luck & at the mercy of the city here for these things?? With all the foreclosures, the abandoned homes/buildings, the rate of demolitions lately, etc, do you guys see this getting much worse & the area slipping back into the abyss??

I'm sure I'm not telling you guys stuff you don't already know, but I feel it needs to be talked about more so the problems can be solved, and quickly. Because I think the economy & city budget stuff is only gonna get worse, so I'd like to hear some suggestions that doesn't involve throwing huge piles of money towards it (because that probably can't happen anyways). Thanks.

[uptowngirl]

The city appears to have to options (if taxes are being paid) ignore it or demolish it. That is their view on it. I think Springfield and Main St. have two different issues, I would say the residential area is continuing to shine (although slower and more steady) where Main St has spurts of active areas. One of the biggest issues are landlords thinking they can "get a good price" and second (and most critical) is the redesign of Main St. Whoever added the horrible median (without any pedestrian crossthroughs) destroyed a lot of opportunities Main St. may have had :-(

[ChriswUfGator]

Yes Springield has been regressing since Louise DeSpain's Reign of Terror. This all traces back to SPAR.

At this point, the market needs to turn around. But I think it really says something that Springfield is about the only place anywhere that actually lost housing stock during the biggest Florida real estate boom ever. Not to mention losing most of its commercial stock as well. Good job SPAR.

[peestandingup]

Yes Springield has been regressing since Louise DeSpain's Reign of Terror. This all traces back to SPAR.

At this point, the market needs to turn around. But I think it really says something that Springfield is about the only place anywhere that actually lost housing stock during the biggest Florida real estate boom ever. Not to mention losing most of its commercial stock as well. Good job SPAR.

Yes, I know there is a lot of SPAR-bashing here, but I really do think they are part of the problem & disconnected from reality. I'm not saying they don't do some good & that they don't need to exist, but just not to be so stifling.

It seems like they (and some others in the area) have this image of what they want Springfield to be, but it doesn't line up with what it actually is. I don't understand their reasoning for say, not allowing something like a simple awning on your storefront business when there are so many abandoned buildings on Main that look like they're ready to topple over. It doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense & you'd think they'd be open to damn near anything at this point.

They really just need to let go & let things happen naturally. There are people like me who want to do things & want to breathe some new life into the area. Sure, we may not be loaded or be some big time investor, but that doesn't mean we don't have good ideas & couldn't offer good products, etc.

At this point, they really need to just play more of a hands-off role & let things happen.

[iloveionia]

My thoughts:

I think residential real estate is strong in Historic Springfield.  Springfield Chicken can verify this with real estate data, she has on another thread here. 

Commercial Real Estate sucks.  Main Street is filled with abandoned blight and you are right, most folks aren't welcome there.  Either they don't fit the mold, or the price is ridiculous and keeps everyone away.  Now that said, I did a walking survey of Main Street from 4th to 8th Street, both sides, and the buildings themselves were in damn good condition.  The one in the worse shape was the former site of Boomtown.  The Fat Cat Grocery buiding is for sale and at last look it was under $150,000, that's reasonable as it is in good condition.

Without a doubt, Main Street needs to be taken by the balls and brought to life.  It is beyond Dire Straits and in order for Springfield to grow, we need a vibrant Main Street, and having a vibrant 8th Street wouldn't hurt either.  Someone needs to get out there and negotiate with owners and woo potential businesses to come.  And truth be told, I will go out there and do it myself with the support of friends and neighbors if the people in the position to do so don't do it. 

And FYI, demolitions are at a halt.  We could not stop emergency demolitions, but we did stop the rest.  I'm told in February, the city will present their plan for mothballing.  We've added our input (Preservation SOS,) and eagerly await the city's actions to preserve our historic homes, and intend to support the process of mothballing to the best of our abilities.

[letters and numbers]

Yes I agree with uptowngirl that main st and the residential part are like totally different. Main street is suffering but the residential is looking good.
I ve been putting a lot of research on this because I probably will be buying there.  But at least the uptown market place is taking off on main street!

[ChriswUfGator]

Well, sorta...

The thing I was referring to was that Springfield is the only area of town...maybe the whole state actually...where, despite the biggest real estate boom in history, the asinine behavior of SPAR actually wound up costing the neighborhood several hundred units of SFR housing stock plus probably a 100+ more apartment units (in multifamily buildings).

There have been 300+ demolitions in the past several years, and when you subtract SRG's 90 or so new houses from that figure, then this is truly the only area I can think of that managed to come out the other side of the biggest real estate boom in history with less to show for it than what it started with.

And when you look at commercial property, it's even worse. Before DeSpain took over, Main Street was full of businesses. Bars, restaurants, pawn shops, a secondhand furniture store. These weren't SPAR's "right" kind of people though. So they ran them all off and demolished half the buildings, in anticipation of that Starbucks Craig VanHorn promised. Well we see how that turned out. Yes there is Bissette's one new building, but that hardly makes up for the rest of the street that is vacant.

Seriously, this is a failure of truly epic proportions.

[iloveionia]

Gator.
I agree.
We are in "clean up the messes" mode.
Ah hem.
Clean up the "BIG ass messes" mode.
A plan of action is needed for Main Street that will make it viable and welcoming, needed like yesterday.

[simms3]

I am happy to hear this discussion.   It is definitely an honest, necessary hard look.  I'm glad that the more progressive design for that one house was approved a while back.  Springfield needs whatever it can get at this point, commercially, and imo residentially.  If every house and commercial building winds up looking like SRG did it when all is said and done, then that will be one boring neighborhood!

I also think to a much smaller degree, but to a degree, that RAP sets Riverside and Avondale back.  Keep the history worth keeping that we do have, but my God let's get some fresh, funky new stuff going on and some more urban, denser redevelopment.

I think there are wonderful opportunities for warehouse style dining in the Springfield area, but SPAR would never allow something like that.  I guess Jacksonville won't be getting any cool new restaurants, lofts, or stores any time soon.

[peestandingup]

I am happy to hear this discussion.   It is definitely an honest, necessary hard look.  I'm glad that the more progressive design for that one house was approved a while back.  Springfield needs whatever it can get at this point, commercially, and imo residentially.  If every house and commercial building winds up looking like SRG did it when all is said and done, then that will be one boring neighborhood!

I also think to a much smaller degree, but to a degree, that RAP sets Riverside and Avondale back.  Keep the history worth keeping that we do have, but my God let's get some fresh, funky new stuff going on and some more urban, denser redevelopment.

I think there are wonderful opportunities for warehouse style dining in the Springfield area, but SPAR would never allow something like that.  I guess Jacksonville won't be getting any cool new restaurants, lofts, or stores any time soon.

Thanks. I wasn't sure how this thread would be perceived, so I'm glad people are acknowledging the issues & talking about them. Its healthy.

I do think a lot of the posters here though might be of a different, more "open" breed than a lot of the powers that be in Springfield. Meaning we're more open to funky development & such.

I agree with you though. It needs a fresh vibe & more "weirdness". In my experience, up & coming areas such as Springfield always go through that phase first before they get "higher end". The eccentrics get first crack, make it cool & hip without a lot of rules & regulations forced down their throats, then everything else falls into place afterwards. It seems like Springfield wanted to skip over that step & go from Cracktown directly to a DC Georgetown-like status. It tried to go too hard too fast, so it's no wonder it crashed hard as well. At least that's the way I see it.

My point is, we have to let go of that now & start fresh. It's really the only way we can move forward. So that means that a lot of people may have to give up that "Georgetown dream" (at least for now) & just concentrate on getting in fresh faces & fresh business ideas. Even if that means that those said people don't fit the mold that a lot of residents/SPAR want.

[iloveionia]

At this point I don't think SPAR is going anywhere.  I am a SPAR member and they don't always speak for me.  A concerned group of citizens can go a long way.  You are right Stephen, it's easy, but some folks need to get out of the way. 
Also, I agree peestandingup.  Main Street needs a fresh vibe, some weirdness. 

[letters and numbers]

I got a good impression from them when I've talked them. I'm toying with the idea of opening a guitar shop and they were excited. But it would be 2012 probably if everything works out spheres to a prosperous new year! One thing at a time!   Iloveinonia how long have you lived there?

[ChriswUfGator]

I am happy to hear this discussion.   It is definitely an honest, necessary hard look.  I'm glad that the more progressive design for that one house was approved a while back.  Springfield needs whatever it can get at this point, commercially, and imo residentially.  If every house and commercial building winds up looking like SRG did it when all is said and done, then that will be one boring neighborhood!

I also think to a much smaller degree, but to a degree, that RAP sets Riverside and Avondale back.  Keep the history worth keeping that we do have, but my God let's get some fresh, funky new stuff going on and some more urban, denser redevelopment.

I think there are wonderful opportunities for warehouse style dining in the Springfield area, but SPAR would never allow something like that.  I guess Jacksonville won't be getting any cool new restaurants, lofts, or stores any time soon.

Thanks. I wasn't sure how this thread would be perceived, so I'm glad people are acknowledging the issues & talking about them. Its healthy.

I do think a lot of the posters here though might be of a different, more "open" breed than a lot of the powers that be in Springfield. Meaning we're more open to funky development & such.

I agree with you though. It needs a fresh vibe & more "weirdness". In my experience, up & coming areas such as Springfield always go through that phase first before they get "higher end". The eccentrics get first crack, make it cool & hip without a lot of rules & regulations forced down their throats, then everything else falls into place afterwards. It seems like Springfield wanted to skip over that step & go from Cracktown directly to a DC Georgetown-like status. It tried to go too hard too fast, so it's no wonder it crashed hard as well. At least that's the way I see it.

My point is, we have to let go of that now & start fresh. It's really the only way we can move forward. So that means that a lot of people may have to give up that "Georgetown dream" (at least for now) & just concentrate on getting in fresh faces & fresh business ideas. Even if that means that those said people don't fit the mold that a lot of residents/SPAR want.

Lol, we already had weirdness aplenty. I remember sitting on Main Steet on a big shabby plush couch drunk as a skunk watching a dozen naked people prancing around doing improv theatre while the audience drank absynthe and nobody batted an eyelid. That was 2003. 8 years later, the social climbers at SPAR have managed to demolish 1/3rd of the neighborhood and turn the other 2/3rds of it into some kind of recreation of a suburban Kentucky slum. They're still waiting on thar Starbucks I guess. That restaurant is now gone, along with everything else that was on Main. The owner still lives in the area but I don't know if wild horses could get him open back up there after what happened to him at SPAR's hands.

Not trying to belabor the point here, but your ideas aren't exactly novel. They were in place and the neighborhood was really taking off, then The Reign of Terror came to town and it's been where it's ?been at ever since. There is a crew of people who need to do the right thing and step aside. The arts community had jumped into Springfield with both feet, and so had the restauranteurs and small business people. SPAR ran all of them off and cost many their livelihoods. This isn't a huge town, these folks aren't coming back until that crew steps aside. The main instigator left, but many others remain.

[iloveionia]

I got a good impression from them when I've talked them. I'm toying with the idea of opening a guitar shop and they were excited. But it would be 2012 probably if everything works out spheres to a prosperous new year! One thing at a time!   Iloveinonia how long have you lived there?

That's great news!!!  I bought my first house in Springfield during the summer of 2007, on Ionia of course!!!

And letters and numbers, you certainly don't need SPARs permission to open up a store.  Gator's point (correct me Chris,) is that you do need their blessing or you will be "car washed."

[movedsouth]

I don't think "regressing" is the right word. Maybe "stagnating". Much of it was already said above:

- Main Street, and overall the commercial development, is a mess. Sadly, I think the Main Street reconstruction which was THE big infrastructure project in Springfield over the last few years, has been botched. No way to redo this for the next decade+

- The residential market is ok and in "cleanup mode". You can actually buy houses now and have a prayer to make money if you restore them. This was impossible a few years ago.

- Of course we got the "walk away" houses that are a big problem and will require some bold rethinking on the city's end.

- SPAR was too late to the party after the real estate market tanked, in part hoping to be able to whitewash the problem. The initial vision to "demo and rebuild Disney style" didn't pan out in the current market. But it is not SPAR or Louis's fault alone. SPAR and SRG would probably both have done a lot better if they would have acted as checks and balances for each other. In the process, SPAR missed the transformation happening in the population of Springfield, and misread the changes it did detect. But the great thing about Springfield is that we don't need anybody to tell us what to do. People in general just go and do it.

I think Springfield still has a lot going for it. To me, the #1 concern is density. With land being "free" right now I can see people building on larger lots which will hurt Springfield in the long run.  My predication is that Springfield will be functionally more like a suburb. Springfield should be a place where you still get more house then you could afford otherwise if you are willing to take on an old ruin and bring it back to live in a large part due to your own work. It won't be a "get rich quick" place for flippers of old houses or new construction in the foreseeable future. I don't think we will see a lot of single family houses exceeding $300k anytime soon aside from the odd special gem (inflation adjusted: never?). Springfield is still a place where you can find a distinct "home", not just a box to sleep in. Its a place where you can be yourself, not worrying too much about what your neighbors are thinking about the comfy couch on your front porch, the chicken in your back yard or the old water pipes and electrical insulators, or wine bottles you use as yard decoration.