FDOT Proposing $118 Million For Amtrak/FEC Project

[JeffreyS]

Couldn't agree more.

[Ernest Street]

Great pics Lake.The front ballroom at the Prime is the former colored waiting room. If you walk the floor lengthwise, you can tell where the dips that are worn in the concrete from nervous shuffling feet are.
I love Rail and enjoy it whenever I travel.(except for certain Illinois Amtrack)

We as a Town have to undo this Incorporated Duval sprawl and bring our urban core back. We can't have rail based Downtown when everyone lives outside of "Ground Zero" didn't this happen to Atlanta?
We also have to ask ourselves and our friends and neighbors why everyone has had to keep purchasing larger trucks and SUVs with increasingly larger Horsepower engines the last 8 years.WTF? I love Horsepower and Drag racing, but this used to be a hobby with your "Toy"
Now there are Duramax Turbo diesel ..Dodge V-10s, and other "Exxon Valdez" sized Dually vehicles all over our streets.
Simply put...Farm vehicles on our City streets.What happened to the 4 cylinder engine?
You won't ever get the Entitled folks to be green and ride Rail or Bus.
Has anyone mentioned to Johnny P that most folks won't ever set foot on a Bus because "Poor" disgusting people ride it?
This is not my opinion... it is a local stigma.
I have seen people around here that drive but are scared to death of having to exit their Cocoon anywhere between point A and point B.
Bikers call you a "Cager"  
Just pointing out a few local trends and behaviors that are being passed down to other generations.

Lastly, I think a large percentage of our population looks at this progressive thinking as "European" or liberal.
They were not encouraged to think for themselves while they were growing up, or to look after the future of this town.
Free thought is not Left wing or Right.

[dougskiles]

Great post Ernest - times are a changing - just wait and see.

The whole massive vehicle thing really gets to me too - and is why part of me can't wait for $5/gallon gas.

[Ocklawaha]

You won't ever get the Entitled folks to be green and ride Rail or Bus.
Has anyone mentioned to Johnny P that most folks won't ever set foot on a Bus because "Poor" disgusting people ride it?
This is not my opinion... it is a local stigma.
I have seen people around here that drive but are scared to death of having to exit their Cocoon anywhere between point A and point B.

Actually Ernest, the stigma of buses is a NATIONWIDE problem and the industry knows it very well. Rail will attract the "ENTITLED" as it feels many times more secure then a bus, and frankly, how many bus museums are around where a half million a year go just for the experience of a ride? The guide to streetcar museums is more then 40 pages thick. In New Orleans, in Charlotte, Los Angles, Portland, San Francisco etc... the streetcars are packed with the "poor and disgusting," mixing with big blue business suited professionals, mixed with loud flower shirted tourists... It's the magic of the rails that Arlo Guthrie sang about.

Feel the wheels rumblin' 'neath the floor.
And the sons of pullman porters
And the sons of engineers
Ride their father's magic carpets made of steel.
Mothers with their babes asleep,
Are rockin' to the gentle beat
And the rhythm of the rails is all they feel.

Quick, what is this a photo of? If you thought commuter rail guess again, it's the Transmilenio BRT system in Bogota!

Buses have benefited from successful rail in many communities with a surge of traffic, the industry aware of the image problem has met this new wave of riders with new low floor buses, wide entries, better suspension, real time information, news tickers, GPS bus location, and BRT which even bills itself as "just like rail only cheaper..." If BRT were really the panaceia that JTA told our city it was, Amtrak would be running ad's that say, "just like Greyhound only bigger." Never the less, BRT has cleaned up the image of many heavy inner city routes even using rail look-alike buses.

Another program that I have discussed with JTA, is to follow the lead of Bauer Bus. Take the 3 over-the-road coaches (Greyhound type coaches as opposed to buses) and replace them with 6 new Silver Eagles, or MCI's or Prevost-Volvo coaches. Add the amenities that draw the crowds, rest room, snack bar, reclining seats, overhead storage, video monitors , wifi, 110 volt outlets, piped music, etc... and place them on the long stretch out commuter runs, such as Ponte Vedra, Nocatee, Fernandina, St. Augustine-via A-1-A etc...

SEE:  http://www.bauerswi-drive.org/thebus.aspx  then call Mike Blaylock and tell him what we want.


OCKLAWAHA

[Sonic101]

Flagler County isn't shown having a station.  Do they not want one or are they just slow?

[Ocklawaha]

They've been all over it, including ambushing the test train a couple of month ago with a huge crowd, banners, signs, police and fire...

AMTRAK STOP HERE!

The train blew right through Bunnell where the stop would be.


OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Flagler County isn't shown having a station.  Do they not want one or are they just slow?

They want one but haven't been granted a stop as of yet.

[Dog Walker]

Maybe we need to stand around the North Jax Amshack with signs the read, "Amtrack DON't stop here, go downtown."

[middleman]

Wasn't the Amtrak station moved north of town because the current Amtrak route forks off between the station and downtown? Given the current route, if the old downtown station was used, it would have to back up to continue on its route to Orange Park and beyond. Assuming that the FEC Amtrak route is revived, the downtown station would work great for me, since I commute in from St. Augustine, but given that a large portion of the Amtrak traffic would veer off before the downtown station, what incentive does Amtrak have in relocating to the downtown station???

I'm a newbie here, so maybe this has been discussed before, but is there a serious plan to revive the downtown station for Amtrak use, or is this just wishful thinking for the urban-transport-enlightened that inhabit this message board?

...jim

[ricker]

very well stated
+1 Ernest
and
I think I feel routine flashmobs coming soon

[Jaxson]

Wasn't the Amtrak station moved north of town because the current Amtrak route forks off between the station and downtown? Given the current route, if the old downtown station was used, it would have to back up to continue on its route to Orange Park and beyond. Assuming that the FEC Amtrak route is revived, the downtown station would work great for me, since I commute in from St. Augustine, but given that a large portion of the Amtrak traffic would veer off before the downtown station, what incentive does Amtrak have in relocating to the downtown station???

I'm a newbie here, so maybe this has been discussed before, but is there a serious plan to revive the downtown station for Amtrak use, or is this just wishful thinking for the urban-transport-enlightened that inhabit this message board?

...jim

It is true that trains had to back into the downtown terminal, but it is also true that Amtrak trains currently back into the station in Chicago.  To play devil's advocate, I can understand why Amtrak abandoned downtown Jacksonville in 1974.  The terminal was prohibitively expensive to operate in light of the small number of trains that were running through the city.  I recall reading about how the terminal was in bad shape during the late 1960s and early 1970s.  Does anyone have pictures of the drop ceiling that was installed to ostensibly save on operating expenses (e.g. air and heat)?  I know that Ock may have some interior shots of the waning days of our downtown terminal, right?  At any rate, we have entered a new chapter in our city's rich rail history and it is time to make things right again!

[ricker]

saving the tunnels?

[Ocklawaha]

Wasn't the Amtrak station moved north of town because the current Amtrak route forks off between the station and downtown? Given the current route, if the old downtown station was used, it would have to back up to continue on its route to Orange Park and beyond. Assuming that the FEC Amtrak route is revived, the downtown station would work great for me, since I commute in from St. Augustine, but given that a large portion of the Amtrak traffic would veer off before the downtown station, what incentive does Amtrak have in relocating to the downtown station???

I'm a newbie here, so maybe this has been discussed before, but is there a serious plan to revive the downtown station for Amtrak use, or is this just wishful thinking for the urban-transport-enlightened that inhabit this message board?

...jim

All trains will be split or rejoined in Jacksonville, meaning that switching will be necessary. This was always the reason why the old terminal had both through and stub tracks. We had more switching operations then any other US Terminal. Trains entered/or departed for over:

NYC-DC-CHARLESTON-SAV-JESSUP-JAX
NYC-DC-RALEIGH-SAV-KINGSLAND-JAX
DET-BUFFALO-CLEVELAND-CHICAGO-CINCINNATI-ATLANTA-VALDOSTA-JAX
CHICAGO-LOUISVILLE-NASHVILLE-ATLANTA-MANCHESTER-WAYCROSS-JAX
CHICAGO-LOUISVILLE-BIRMINGHAM-MONTGOMERY-WAYCROSS-JAX
CHICAGO/ST LOUIS-CAIRO-BIRMINGHAM-COLUMBUS-WAYCROSS-JAX
NEW ORLEANS-PENSACOLA-TALLY-JAX

And departed/entered from

JAX-DAYTONA-FT. PIERCE-W.PALM-MIAMI
JAX-PALATKA-ORLANDO-AUBURNDALE-LAKELAND-TAMPA
JAX-BALDWIN-GAINESVILLE-OCALA-LEESBURG-TRILBY-ST PETE
JAX-BALDWIN-STARKE-OCALA-DADE CITY-PLANT CITY-TAMPA
JAX-PALATKA-ORLANDO-AUBURNDALE-FT.MYERS-NAPLES
JAX-BALDWIN-STARKE-OCALA-DADE CITY-PLANT CITY-TAMPA-SARASOTA-VENICE
JAX-PALATKA-ORLANDO-LAKE WALES-SEBRING-PALMDALE-EVERGLADES CITY

So for over a century, any train could come into Jax with cars for any two-three-four or more of these destinations, and leave with cars from the two-three-four or more destinations.

Amtrak has finally woke the hell up and figured out they are running trains and not non-stop airplanes, so the old terminal is coming back to life... maybe sooner then we can get it ready. But the project is very real, and actually dates to around 1980 when the USDOT did a recommendation that we have a 12 track station. So of course JTA planned only three... Let's hope that a more intelligent mind prevails.

CHECK OUT THE ARCHIVES:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/search?cx=001374210287472026848%3Aanwcdk3sekc&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=UTF-8&q=jacksonville+terminal&sa.x=0&sa.y=0#1151

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Typical of what is to come, VIA RAIL CANADA.

The eastbound Ocean and Chaleur

VIA's combined train 14 and 16 (The Ocean and The Chaleur) is making it's first of 2 scheduled stops at Rimouski, QC. At Matapedia, the train will split and one section will head for Halifax, NS while the other will be bound for Gaspé, QC. Night of June 22nd, 2002.



Illinois Central RR Switcher in Carbondale "Switching passenger cars at Carbondale, April, 1967". Likely the St.Louis Section and the Chicago Section of the train City of Miami.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

How to get from JACKSONVILLE to ATLANTA in 1965, The Southern Railway's ROYAL PALM which went on to Cincinnati.

Amtrak is planning on adding 2 trains each way daily on the Florida East Coast route, with the other 2 (sections of the same trains) via Orlando-Tampa and Orlando-Sebring-Miami.

PHASE 2. Will be to add 2 new trains to and from the north giving us 4 each way daily to NYC-DC-SAV etc...
I suspect and in fact have heard that one will be the Palmetto (again) which will make an all daylight sprint from NYC in the early 7ish AM to about 11 PM arrival in Jax. IF they watch that schedule, we could have the first overnight train to Miami for many years.

Another aspect will be the former SUNSET LIMITED which runs LAX-NORL, and was cut between New Orleans and Orlando. Once we have the tracks to deal with train sections again and a switcher stationed at our terminal, expect DOT to come up with a plan to run the GULF WIND, on a daylight schedule from JAX-NORL.

Finally, the secretary of transportation for the USA, has just stated that he wants to see the Jacksonville-Atlanta corridor developed. Again, expect 2 trains each way daily, and we should be putting on pressure along with South Central Georgia to route those trains via Valdosta on the NORFOLK SOUTHERN. It has an excellent higher speed mainline and fairly light traffic density which would allow wide open passenger running.

THAT'S THE CRYSTAL BALL FOLKS...



OCKLAWAHA