The Park View Pavilion Coming Soon

[tufsu1]

and see...this is the problem....hoping not to get a chain....wouldn't that be better than leaving it to rot more?

[letters and numbers]

YES! it would be much better and I think that that is more realistic. Like a Tj maxx or Cvs. I think local small shops are a better fit for Main street than State street

[KuroiKetsunoHana]

and see...this is the problem....hoping not to get a chain....wouldn't that be better than leaving it to rot more?

acsolutely not.  that kind ov thinking is part ov why every city in america looks the same lately.  better unique ruins than cloned stores.

[Ocklawaha]

Let's see 5-Points was dying or dead, then along came PUBLIX, EINSTEIN and STARBUCKS and bodda bing - bodda biff.... LIFE! Those unique little shops that are truly mom and pop or small corporate operations benefit from the traffic generated by a well known anchor.

OCKLAWAHA

[Captain Zissou]

YES! it would be much better and I think that that is more realistic. Like a Tj maxx or Cvs. I think local small shops are a better fit for Main street than State street

Good luck with that business model.  All you have to do is look at the ghost of a shopping center at University and St Augustine to see the draw of national chains.  Publix left and went across the street and the entire center died.  

[Jaxson]

Let's see 5-Points was dying or dead, then along came PUBLIX, EINSTEIN and STARBUCKS and bodda bing - bodda biff.... LIFE! Those unique little shops that are truly mom and pop or small corporate operations benefit from the traffic generated by a well known anchor.

OCKLAWAHA

It was actually the reverse....they came much later, after us indie types had already done the heavy lifting.

I second that!  I remember the Fusion Cafe well.  It was a genius of an idea for a lot of us townies who looked for a way to have a fun night besides making the trek to Einstein-a-go-go at the Beaches.  Not that there was anything wrong with Einsteins : )

[Singejoufflue]

It would be great if there was a locally owned/operated mom/pop business that fit this intersection perfectly AND had  the capital and wherewithal to get this project off the ground.  What, no takers?  I guess Walgreens it is. 

[strider]

It would be different if the location was not going to be dependent on the people going to and from work or other shopping/ business to stop and shop.  A well known name, which mostly, but not always, means a major chain, seems more likely to get those passing motorists to stop. I am hoping a smaller but well known chain takes the biggest spot and several other mom and pops take the rest. Best of both worlds and perhaps it will trickle on up Main.

[Ocklawaha]

Let's see 5-Points was dying or dead, then along came PUBLIX, EINSTEIN and STARBUCKS and bodda bing - bodda biff.... LIFE! Those unique little shops that are truly mom and pop or small corporate operations benefit from the traffic generated by a well known anchor.

OCKLAWAHA

It was actually the reverse....they came much later, after us indie types had already done the heavy lifting.

Maybe so, but I'd think the indie market is much smaller then that of a Publix or Starbucks. I have no doubt that it was the urban pioneers that kick started life here, but likewise imagine the really huge crowds and traffic jams came along with the big stores.

It might well be the indie group that rebirths downtown as well.

OCKLAWAHA

[iloveionia]

I disagree with needing an anchor store, and no, I'm not an expert either.

A collection of stores that offer similiar items is what attracts people in my opinion.
 
I've shared this example before:
www.4thstreetlongbeach.com
It's affectionately dubbed "Retro Row."  All mom and pop stores.  No chains.  A couple of small eateries, coffee shop, even a vintage movie theatre.  This place kicks ass.  Long Beach has gone beyond embracing the arts. 

Point is, I won't drive forever and a day for ONE store, but give me a few like stores in one area, and I am there.  It's like mall shopping without the mall. 

San Luis Obispo, CA
Northampton, MA
2 other good examples of adaptive reuse of buildings, mom and pop stores, and places people go to.

I crave antique and salvage stores in Jax, particularly in our old neighborhoods.  They are virtually non-existent. 

[Miss Fixit]

It would be different if the location was not going to be dependent on the people going to and from work or other shopping/ business to stop and shop.  A well known name, which mostly, but not always, means a major chain, seems more likely to get those passing motorists to stop. I am hoping a smaller but well known chain takes the biggest spot and several other mom and pops take the rest. Best of both worlds and perhaps it will trickle on up Main.

Strider is exactly right - it's going to take an anchor with name recognition and significant financial resources, one attracted by high traffic counts, to get this project out of the ground.  Five Points and the Avondale shopping district are very different from State and Main.  Both areas have maintained decent occupancy rates since their construction.  The building stock in those neighborhoods never declined to the condition of the Park View and ETH, so small businesses could move in without prohibitive construction costs.  Both areas are surrounded by/ immediately adjacent to residential neighborhoods full of homes that actually have people living in them.  An anchor that is more unique than a Walgreens would be ideal - something that would draw folks from San Marco, Riverside-Avondale and Arlington who might then shop at mom and pop businesses that would eventually open on Main.  I would love to see a small Target (it would be the closest one to San Marco and Riverside) but agree with previous posters that my ideal is probably not realistic. A World Market?  Utrecht? Small Crate and Barrel?  Still dreaming, I know....

[peestandingup]

Let's see 5-Points was dying or dead, then along came PUBLIX, EINSTEIN and STARBUCKS and bodda bing - bodda biff.... LIFE! Those unique little shops that are truly mom and pop or small corporate operations benefit from the traffic generated by a well known anchor.

OCKLAWAHA

It was actually the reverse....they came much later, after us indie types had already done the heavy lifting.

Thats mostly how it always is in every city, but I'd argue it isn't really needed to the extent that most Jax residents perceive it as. I think a lot of residents here in general don't feel comfortable in an area until they see stuff in it they recognize (like a Starbucks, a Publix, etc). I think that's what we've become in our mallified, planned neighborhood, drive everywhere closed off society.

I do look at it as a necessary evil, but its really sort of a double-edge sword. On one hand the chains help a once blighted area grow faster, but on the other, too many chains & you start to look like the suburbs in Anywhere America. Riverside suffers a bit of this, but they still have a pretty decent mix I think (for now).

But I personally think its getting more & more of the "faux hipster" vibe than anything else lately (the young well-off using mommy & daddy's $$ to move to the area & play cool urban kid dress up time). Real hipsters don't have a lot of money, don't consider themselves hip or trendy & don't try so hard. And they certainly wouldn't be caught dead in a Starbucks drinking coffee that tastes like week old piss, all the while the independently owned ones close down a month after they open. Just saying.

BTW, I'm not trying to be a jerk (I'm really not) & I don't think everyone there is like that, but its just what I see more & more of.

[KuroiKetsunoHana]

i agree with PSU, for the most part.  stephen too, come to think ov it--five points and riverside in general saw a lot more ov me when theory shop was open and publix wasn't there yet.  i should watch that whole agreeïng with people thing; i wouldn't want it to become a habit.

[Ocklawaha]

I think the problem of traffic is going to be completely status and race based. A huge percentage of the yahoo's with disposable income around here wouldn't go near the place if they spot a homeless person, or GOD FORBID a African-American or Latino.

If the new development goes unique, it will depend solely on that "indie" "arts" group to keep the registers ringing. 5-Points/Riverside/San Marco/Avondale/Ortega all have that element in large numbers, but does Springfield? 3-Layers success would indicate that it does when it is offered, it just hasn't been offered with any scale.

Maybe some LOUNGE-STREETCARS, silent movie studios, and a black sheriff is all we need to get back to our progressive liberal roots.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

I think you guys are putting too much thought into this.  Whoever comes in with money to invest in that site is who is going to be there.  I doubt the ownership group is going to turn away a chain or independent if they come in with the right amount of cash needed to stimulate a positive return on their investment.  Nevertheless, given the demographics, site location and proposed development layout, I'll place my bet on something like a CVS or Walgreens, with smaller retailers being a mix of local and national.