Amendment 4: Approve or Oppose?

[Overstreet]

Everybody thinks of surburban spral. But this would also mean that the voters would also have to vote on changing industrial zoning to residential multi family if you wanted to take an old manufacturing plant and turn it into lofts. The suburbs, ie majority of the county,  might all vote no to that change. The current  planning board and zoning panel would likely jump at the chance. It affects downtown also.

[thelakelander]

Yes, a land use change would be required for the old Ford plant or the majority of buildings in the Springfield warehouse district to be anything other than industrial.

[tufsu1]

It would be kinda difficult for any representative to ignore their constituants then.....would it not?

why would it be any different than it is now...do you think everyone would actually bother to vote?\

and btw...if we're talking about issues, voters should be required to listen to all sides before casting their vote....just like Councils do in listening to applicants, staff, and the general public.

You and I have way more in common than I thought...

maybe I convince you to vote the right way too!

[tufsu1]

here's another good article...not the paragraph highlighted below

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/economicdevelopment/article1131009.ece

However, the state Supreme Court and the Florida Association of Counties have concluded those votes would also encompass comprehensive-plan elements as arcane as infrastructure improvements, including placement of sewer and drainage lines. The state says about 8,000 comprehensive plan amendments are approved by local governments each year in Florida.

[archiphreak]

Does no one realize that every PUD application and zoning variance would have to be voted on by the general public?  Permitting and construction will grind to a halt even worse than it is now.

[simms3]

With all of this information and everything we know is there anyone still on board to vote for this boondoggle?

[CS Foltz]

Yes .....simms3! As I have indicated right or wrong..........I am for Amendment 4! I see just what has taken place with our elected officials to this date and say WTH! People seem to have forgotten about Amendment 2 that was voter approved several years ago......this is something that Marco Rubio pushed through when he was speaker of the house and the folks south of here thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread! I see just where we are now because of that and it has come down to Amendment 4 this time out! I do not think it will pass since big & little business seem to think it is wrong, but need to point out, if by chance it does pass (I do not think that it will!) no matter what......everyone has the chance to make their views known! This is the quintessential American way!

[finehoe]

...do you think everyone would actually bother to vote?

People with an interest in the issue will vote, and those that don't care, won't.  Some issues will generate a lot of interest and some will not.  Don't really see a problem.

[tufsu1]

...do you think everyone would actually bother to vote?

People with an interest in the issue will vote, and those that don't care, won't.  Some issues will generate a lot of interest and some will not.  Don't really see a problem.

I see that as a potentialy huge problem...

Think about the Mayport cruise terminal issue....what if only those that were opposed (mainly local Mayport folks) voted?

Elected officials are charged with balancing the desires of their constituents with those of the larger community.

[finehoe]

I see that as a potentialy huge problem...

Think about the Mayport cruise terminal issue....what if only those that were opposed (mainly local Mayport folks) voted?

Elected officials are charged with balancing the desires of their constituents with those of the larger community.

And what if the elected officials only voted according to what their campaign contrtibutors thought was best?

Oh, wait...that's what happens now.

[Debbie Thompson]

There were about 180 items last year that would have qualified.  What if we did want to make lofts in the Springfield warehouse district?  Faced with 180 choices, wouldn't the average voter "just say no" in order not to "make a mistake" rather than read 180 different choices and make an informed decision on them?  

Right now, we could turn out 100 vocal dissenters at the drop of a hat to storm the city council if a proposed development wasn't something we thought was compatible with our neighborhoods.  But what if everyone in Duval County was voting on this? Do you think the folks in Queens Harbor, or the Westside, would care as much about the quality of life in your neck of the woods as you do?

Remember the vote to Consolidate back in the late 1960's?  If it had been allowed to be up to the majority of Duval County voters alone, the Beaches communities would have been annexed instead of the voters who live there deciding their own fate.

Flawed the system may be, but I don't want the rest of the county deciding what to put in my neighborhood.  It's easier to present opposition to the City Council than to try and get the word out to influence the entire City.

[simms3]

Yea I think Amendment 4 has potentially more devastating impacts than what has already happened in the much smaller jurisdiction of St. Pete Beach.  Because Jacksonville encompasses what would normally be at least 20 smaller municipalities, Amendment 4 would be a one size fits all for residents of Duval County (Basically 1 municipality besides the 3 beaches and Baldwin).  Good point Debbie!

[CS Foltz]

Flawed the system may be, but I don't want the rest of the county deciding what to put in my neighborhood.  It's easier to present opposition to the City Council than to try and get the word out to influence the entire City.

Then what is your option if the City Council will not acknowledge your view and decides to advance the developers view? This happened in my world, DR Horton convinced the City Council that their project of 2,400 Townhomes and Condos was a really good idea! It took the Mayor vetoing to put that project on hold. The City Council did not take into consideration the 2,800 people who all ready lived here! There was vocal and strong  organized opposition to this taking place.   What option is there when your City Council representative states point blank "This is not a good idea" and the Council looks at tax revenue and says "OK"? Do you just roll over and say..........thanks big guy... I look forward to getting shafted! Amendment 4 gives all of us the option to say "No Freaking Way Jose"! This is how I look at the situation!

[tufsu1]

CS...believe me...if the 2,800 people who lived there already had spoken up, Council would have listened.

Also, when it comes to land use, the Jax. City Council usually aligns with the local representative's view

[CS Foltz]

During that situation, our Council Representative, at the time was Art Graham, he said point blank "Not good for the City or the area"! There were 3 bus loads of people who showed up,Better Bay Meadows Community Council arranged for the bus's. There were over 600 people who showed up in Council Chambers, I was one of them and had my 3 minutes of fame, even wore a suit just for the event.............Council still voted to pass DR Horton's Project! A petetion with over 2300 signitures was presented on behalf of the area and the Council still voted to approve! If Johnny had not seen fit to veto, Bay Meadows would be even more screwed up than it is now............thanks ITS System..............that is another thread though. Council dropped the ball plain and simple! This situation has convinced me that Amendment 4 is needed and I am voting Yes no matter who says what......saw it first hand, was there and it won't happen in my world again!