Central Florida gains approval to drain the St. Johns to water lawns

[heights unknown]

I agree with stjr, and, the way people waste water, along with the new building and construction going on, if we have another major/serious drought, the mighty St. John's River is in deep trouble.  There really is no clear answer to this.  You can't stop people from prospering, constructing, building, etc. unless it is causing a real serious problem.  In my opinion this issue is serious, but not in the eyes of most.  I guess they (government, etc.) feels that everyone is entitled to water from wherever the source.  Time will tell how this and subsequent draining of the St. John's will affect the delicate and sensitive ecosystem along and surrounding it.

Heights Unknown

[reednavy]

Anyone hear about this huge, and I mean huge, decision for Metro Atlanta?!

Judge: Using Lake Lanier for Drinking Water is Illegal
http://www.11alive.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=132703&catid=40
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090717/ap_on_re_us/us_water_wars

[stjr]

Anyone hear about this huge, and I mean huge, decision for Metro Atlanta?!

Judge: Using Lake Lanier for Drinking Water is Illegal
http://www.11alive.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=132703&catid=40
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090717/ap_on_re_us/us_water_wars

Reednavy, thanks for the cite.  It shows another example that water, among other natural resources, is not limitless.  We can not continue to support unlimited populations across this earth anymore.  At some point, we have to begin accepting that more people, i.e. more growth, is not sustainable and that it will actually REDUCE or ELIMINATE our currently accepted standards of living.  Water, more than oil, traffic, or global warming, may finally be the straw that breaks the back of an insatiable human demand to conquer the environment regardless of the consequences to its own kind.

I do find it ironic that Florida joins Alabama in proclaiming that its water can not be siphoned from natural flows while the SJRWMD promotes and approves the exact opposite within the boundaries of this state.  How about Florida taking a lesson, and practicing what it preaches?  Enough of growth for the sake of growth!

It is pure folly to think that population growth is inherently necessary to sustain our economy or to build such an assumption into our fiscal planning (such as paying for social security with ever increasing numbers of younger workers or paying for today's infrastructure costs with an expected continuing increase in future residents)  which just perpetuates the pressure to maintain it.

"The Court recognizes that this is a draconian result," Magnuson wrote. "It is, however, the only result that recognizes how far the operation of the (lake) has strayed from the original authorization."

Alabama Gov. Bob Riley said the ruling would have a tremendous impact on his state's economic future.

"Atlanta has based its growth on the idea that it could take whatever water it wanted whenever it wanted it, and that the downstream states would simply have to make do with less," Riley said. "Following the Court's ruling today, this massive illegal water grab will be coming to an end." 

[tufsu1]

This will be discussed during the closing session of the 2009 APA Florida Conference, which will be held here in Jacksonville in September.

For more information...

www.floridaplanning.org/conference

[stjr]

Watch this water war between the states to see previews of the upcoming water war between Florida's counties!

Things could get very nasty very quickly.  Crist and the SJWMD better be thinking far ahead on this issue and not worrying about today's politics.  The last thing anyone needs to do is encourage more usage of water when we are already past the point of having a sustainable supply for our current populations!

On our current track, I foresee huge legal bills, lot's of uncertainty, and the imposition of "emergency and unplanned measures" such as moratoriums on growth and forced restrictions to reduce existing water usage.  Don't let SJRWMD, the governor, or anyone else tell you they didn't see it coming (like Gov. Perdue in Georgia).  It's obvious.

Water dispute strains states' governors' relations
BEN EVANS
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON â€" Georgia Gov. Sonny Perdue's public invitation to meet with his counterparts in Alabama and Florida on disputed water rights contained a telling detail about their increasingly frosty relations.

Perdue offered his fellow governors 40 potential dates for a meeting between August and November. Why so many?

Why can't he, Alabama Gov. Bob Riley and Florida Gov. Charlie Crist â€" all Republicans who call themselves friends â€" work out the dates of a meeting without using press releases and news conferences to show how ready they are to negotiate?

"I think it's gamesmanship. They're all sort of strutting around in each of their own barnyards," said Mark Crisp, a water consultant who has worked on behalf of utilities in the dispute. "I think it's evolved into more of a personality clash, not political because they are all three Republicans, and certainly not technical, because the technical aspects of this case are not rocket science."

Nearly everyone involved in the dispute says there is plenty of water to go around in the river systems the states have been fighting over for 20 years. The governors themselves say there shouldn't be a need for continued litigation that has already cost the states millions of dollars.

"It goes back a long ways. There are deep-seated ill feelings," Crisp said.

Yet the states remain in a stalemate, and a landmark court ruling last month may have only hardened their divisions. As of Friday, the governors had not talked directly about water sharing since a federal judge decided earlier in July that Georgia has almost no legal rights to Lake Lanier, metro Atlanta's main water source.

Riley said he ran into Perdue at a governors conference shortly after the ruling was announced but that the subject didn't come up, even though a settlement is perhaps their states' most pressing issue, with potentially far-reaching economic consequences.

Later in the week, the particularly strained relations between Riley and Perdue erupted as the two traded accusations about who was at fault in past negotiations. Perdue challenged Riley to waive a confidentiality agreement so that the public could see the full record of their talks.

All three governors are on their way out. Perdue and Riley are heading into the final year of their eight years in office, prevented by term limits from running again. Crist is forgoing another term to run for Senate.

The recent court decision clarified the legal landscape and set a firm deadline for any settlement: Three years from now. But it also may have made negotiations even more sticky.

Judge Magnuson ruled that Georgia has been illegally tapping Lanier, a massive federal reservoir in north Georgia. The lake currently provides drinking water to more than 3 million people, and the state was banking on using it even more to accommodate future growth. Florida and Alabama had challenged the withdrawals, saying they were drying up river flow into their states.

Acknowledging that the decision could have "draconian" consequences, Magnuson said Georgia could continue using the lake for three years. But most withdrawals must end at that time if the states can't push an agreement through Congress.

Perdue so far appears unwilling to accept the decision, saying he will challenge it through appeal and "fight to the death" for Georgia's water rights. Restarting negotiations in such a weakened position is not an attractive option.

For Riley and Crist, meanwhile, the decision offers little incentive to make concessions at the bargaining table, and plenty of reason to sit back and see what Georgia will offer.

With a three-year deadline looming, Georgia would be taking a significant risk if it waits and hopes the case is reversed without simultaneously seeking a settlement.

Already, Democrats are criticizing Perdue for leaving the state in a bind.

"His attempts at using the courts have failed at every level and done nothing but isolate our neighbors to the west and south," said David Poythress, a Democrat and former Georgia National Guard commander running for governor.

Poythress said Perdue should focus on reaching an accord with the other states while boosting conservation and expanding the state's water storage capacity. Such criticism could spread to the other governors if Atlanta is thrown into a water crisis.

But for the near term, Crisp said Georgia leaders are under the gun because they have "painted themselves in a corner that's going to be tremendously difficult to get out of."

He said Perdue surely feels he must protect Georgia's interests, but that he probably also has an eye on his legacy.

"When they leave office, they want to leave the state in a better position than when they took over, and I think at this point Gov. Perdue is looking at the real possibility that his only legacy, regardless of what's happened over the past eight years, is that he lost" the water wars, Crisp said. "I don't know what kind of guidance he's been provided by his legal or policy staff, but the future of Georgia is in his hands right now."

[riverkeepered]

Unfortunately, the decisions that are being made regarding water supply are not based on common sense.  As with most decisions that are made about water and our natural resources, this is about politics and money. 

In fact, Seminole County is so intent on withdrawing water from the river to fuel future growth and to position themselves as a regional water supplier that they have resorted to intimidation tactics. 

This is from an e-mail submitted by Riverkeeper Neil Armingeon recently:

You may remember that St. Johns Riverkeeper is appealing the Yankee Lake permit decision in the Fifth District Court of Appeal.  We are currently drafting the appeal, and it will be filed in late August.  Unfortunately, Seminole County is doing everything it can to make our work even harder.

Although Riverkeeper's legal challenge was filed against the SJRWMD, Seminole County, as the permit applicant, intervened in the case.  For all practical purposes, Seminole County and their attorneys have driven the case, and the SJRWMD has been relegated to bystanders.

Seminole’s  strategy has been to bully Riverkeeper, hoping to drive us out of the case.  Their primary action was to threaten us with legal sanctions, meaning Riverkeeper would be liable to pay their legal costs that total well into the millions of dollars. 

The basis for Seminole’s charges was that Riverkeeper’s case was “frivolous” and that we filed the challenge not to protect the river from water withdrawals, but to “make money”.  Our attorneys have filed responses challenging this outlandish accusation.  The judge has not ruled on Seminole’s charges, so it has continued.

Earlier this summer, Seminole County resurrected their attempts to seek legal fees, and this time they were adamant that the judge must rule.  In addition to Riverkeeper being liable, Seminole County is now seeking fees from our attorneys, as well.   To avoid a Seminole County-created conflict of interest, Riverkeeper has been forced to hire another attorney in these proceedings.

Seminole’s motives are clear; they want us to spend limited our limited financial and staff resources defending against these charges.  They also want to make it as difficult as possible for citizens to challenge these proposed water withdrawals. 

It is outrageous that citizen groups must raise large amounts of money to defend the natural resources that belong to all of us.  Now, we must also defend ourselves against unwarranted charges. 

Seminole County’s actions demonstrate the ends to which parties in Central Florida will go to remove water from the St. Johns River, so they can continue to grow at an unsustainable rate. 

The SJRWMD is also playing a part in this unfortunate event.   Last week, the Director of the Resource Management Department, Hal Wilkening, testified on behalf of Seminole County.   Wilkening is leading the District’s charge to remove water from the St. Johns and Ocklawaha Rivers, and his testimony demonstrates the District does not always represent the public that funds their budget.

We will continue to fight this injustice, and I can assure you St. Johns Riverkeeper will not be bullied or threatened by Seminole county or any other party whose actions pose a threat to the health of the St. Johns.

While Seminole County continues to authorize its attorneys to pursue these ridiculous claims against Riverkeeper and the City of Jacksonville spending thousands of taxpayer dollars in the process, they are facing significant possible cuts for essential city services and programs.   They are also pursuing expensive withdrawal projects that may no longer be necessary as soon as once thought.  The growth projections have changes significantly since the future water supply needs were estimated, so Seminole may be expending money on unnecessary water supply projects at the expense of other more immediate infrastructure needs. 

I hope we in NE FL are paying attention and will learn from their mistakes.

[stjr]

Seminole County is out of bounds.  I hope the Riverkeeper and COJ can countersue them for legal fees for pursuing their own frivolous strategy.  Maybe that risk would give them pause.

Meanwhile, the TU article this week on the depletion of spring water feeding the St. Johns River should be factored into to the withdrawal process.  I don't remember them commenting on how this might be a factor so any comment here would be welcome.

[British Shoe Company]

Central Florida should pay $ to the St. Johns water mgmt for water.

[buckethead]

I call to stop all new development in Florida with the exception of infill and adaptive reuse. All the cookie cutter subdivision's are not needed. Hell on my AD VALOREM TAXES I pay ST Johns River Water Mgmt taxes so I should have a say what is done with the river if i pay taxes on it

This is the "Titanic" philosophy.

Now that I'm on the lifeboat, to hell with everyone else. PULL UP THE LADDERS!

[stjr]

More evidence below of water supply issues ahead - from the SJRWMD's own data!  How does the SJRWMD continue to approve the siphoning off of more water to feed unsustainable development?  I predict a day not far out when all development will have to be halted due to lack of necessary water supplies.  Time to put politics aside and deal with this issue correctly.

Will Jacksonville's water woes spread across North Florida?

Experts say excess demand might sap the water that now bubbles out of springs in rural North Florida.

By Steve PattersonStory updated at 12:23 PM on Saturday, Sep. 26, 2009

Generations of tourists in North Florida visited White Springs and the "spring house" where clear sulfur water bubbled from the ground.

That ended decades ago. Wells drilled around the speck of a town on the Suwannee River pumped so much ground water that the spring stopped flowing.

Today, people in inland North Florida are wondering whether rivers and more springs could someday face similar damage from a new generation of pumping farther away - in Jacksonville.

"White Springs kind of leads you into the whole water supply issue in North Florida," said Carlos Herd, water supply project manager for the Suwannee River Water Management District. "Right now, it doesn't look real good.

"At least in the future, there could be significant impacts. ... [With] what's happened up to this point, are we looking at the beginning of those effects?"

State agencies are taking a closer a look at that.

Herd's office and the St. Johns River Water Management District will spend the next few months analyzing how water use in Jacksonville and its suburbs will add to the demand put on levels of the Floridan Aquifer in places like Bradford, Union and Alachua counties.

Their main question is how that will affect plants and wildlife around the Santa Fe River, which starts near Keystone Heights and winds past several counties to join the Suwannee.

Early forecasts suggested that by 2030, Jacksonville-area demand could suck down aquifer levels anywhere from one to three feet near the Santa Fe's upper reaches, which get water from both rainfall and springs.

That forecast is on top of the demand that will come from people actually living in those areas, who use water for farming and mining as well as in their homes and shops.

Although Florida's sudden falloff in growth could make the earlier predictions too dire, the subject has some outdoor enthusiasts worried.

"We're getting too close to a tipping point that can radically change an ecosystem," said Rob Brinkman, chairman of the Sierra Club's Gainesville-area group.

"The water we're using is having an effect on how much water is coming out of the springs, and that affects the water quality."

On the Santa Fe, hurting the ecosystem can also mean harming a lifestyle built on hiking and paddling dark waterways that draw day-trippers from around the state.

If water agencies decide the Santa Fe can't handle more demands on the aquifer, the St. Johns and Suwannee districts will have to work out some plan to keep that from happening, said Al Canepa, assistant director of resource management at the St. Johns district.

Deciding whether that's necessary will mean finding out how sensitive different springs and sections of river are, because the same change in the aquifer can affect two places very differently, Canepa said.

A new forecast that factors water use from both districts and new estimates of slower population growth should be ready early next year, he said.

"Right now, we don't think that there's an issue," Canepa said. "But the jury is still out."

Proving what causes changes at any one spring can be complicated, and some changes have nothing to do with anyone in Jacksonville.

At Worthington Springs in Union County, for example, the flow from a tiny spring ringed by an old concrete pool slowed to a trickle years ago.

But Brinkman said the big issue is less about whether one town is affecting another than whether Floridians are taking care of their water supply.

"The problem in Florida is we don't do a very good job with conservation," he said. "Floridians use more per capita than most of the nation. There's really no good reason for that."

If people learned to conserve water better, he said, "we could get to the point where Jacksonville could increase its population and still use less water than it does now."

From: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-09-26/story/will_jacksonvilles_water_woes_spread_across_north_florida

[reednavy]

Desalinization, plain and simple.

[Ocklawaha]

Couldn't agree more Reednavy. This is what is left after you pull the water out! This shot is Bristol Dry (salt) Lake, at Amboy, CA., about 45 minutes North of my desert place. 500 miles from nowhere - 2 feet from HELL! In Owens Lake, an hour or so North, you can see the bones of steamboats sticking out of the Salt, got to water LA!

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Central Florida needs to monitor it's own water usage...........St Johns will change drastically when the flow of fresh water is reduced and the increase in salinity takes place..........look to the Okefenokee canal project as to what will take place and we are still paying for that one!

[mtraininjax]

People in Keystone Heights have long blamed Jacksonville residents for draing their lakes. What comes around....

[JeffreyS]

^ M Train no one in Keystone now or ever believed Jacksonville has had much to do with their lake problems.

BTW the water is way up in Keystone I am their once a week and it is at the highest level in 10 or 15 years.

Jax has no relevant connection to Keystone water.
If you would like to learn more.
http://www.saveourlakes.org/