Kuhn Projects being Re-evaluated

[Metro Jacksonville]

Kuhn Projects being Re-evaluated



According to Cameron Kuhn, CEO of Kuhn Companies, the River Watch site next to the SunTrust Building (and across the street from The Jacksonville Landing) will become a hotel, not Residential Condominums as previously planned.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/472

[Jason]

What a sad day.  Let's hope that Kuhn will find success in Jacksonville one way or another and that soon the market will rebound and all of the proposed developments will rise.

[thelakelander]

Its been debated for a while now, but perhaps the real estate market is revealing that developers can't expect to yuppify the downtown market by skipping the typical steps of urban revitalization.  After all, the market can only handle a certain number of luxury priced units.  It would be one thing if downtown offered a vibrant scene, but we're still years away from that.  The market segment everyone should be shooting for is affordable/market rate housing.

As for the hotel concept, what does this do for those pushing for a hotel at the Prime Osborn?  The market can only bare so much.  Can downtown support a convention center hotel, in addition to what's already operating and proposed?

[jd134]

Well, say goodbye to all these great plans.  The old JEA property,  the VU, now this with Kuhn, I expect the St John to be a no go, and I don't see how the Shipyards tower will ever get built.  It seems that for some reason Jacksonville is always behind the curve and then once we finally seem to wake-up, it's at the end of  a boom and we get shorted. When will we ever be at the front end of a boom and not the tail end? Sorry to sound so gloomy, but this is the way I see it.

[vicupstate]

I agree, except that the Shipyards has the best chance to actually make it out of the ground.  Landmar is on the hook to build something, with the incentives deal.    

Maybe in four years, the next boom will be underway, and you know who will be exiting stage left.

[avonjax]

Wow What a dissappointment.
We are losing 2 nice residential projects.....
We were already losing the downtown race to Tampa now Orlando is also leaving us in the dust.
Lets just hope Novare doesn't change their minds.

[thelakelander]

Seems like the clock is striking midnight.  It striking in other places too, but many have been able to get a number of projects (within close proximity), up during the boomtime.

At least Novare is going after a niche.  Anyway, all is not lost.  Let's not forget that Riverwatch was originally proposed to be a condo-hotel anyway.  I'm happy that Kuhn (like Cesery's 3rd & Main) is still attempting to move forward with a project on that site.  Maybe the Barnett is better off being apartments instead of luxury condos? Those who will find the most success in a rough real estate market will those that can develop a niche.  

As for Jax, we're probably about 5 to 10 years behind most of our peers in embracing urban development trends, so it will be interesting to see if we can make up ground.

[avonjax]

I think apartments for Barnett would be a great idea. When the market goes on an upswing they could convert to condos.
I still think St John will happen....

[SeaEmBee]

A hotel at the Prime? This only makes sense if the powers that be decide that LaVilla is the right spot for the convention center. And if it is indeed the right spot a hotel alone won't cut it. LaVilla will need an infusion of restaurants, bars, and other amenities near by.  The convention center-hotel combo is so 80's. The 21st Century package is the center, hotels, retail, eateries in a walkable area plus residential within eye shot.

Convention Center: Do we build this 21st Century package in Lavilla? -Or- Do we build the convention center where the package components already exist to some degree - Southbank near Kuhn's proposed hotel, the Wyndham, Crowne Plaza, and San Marco's shops & eateries. Maybe we build it on the Northbank next to the Hyatt, which is next to the Landing and a few blocks from the Omni. With the ShipYards on tap this could be a winner.

Market Rate Housing: Any housing not directly on the river in downtown should be market rate - period.

[Taryn Pereira]

I think revitilizing the downtown area with not only residential but various commerical projects is a great plan. However the residential market needs to steer away from ALL LUXARY living to a variety of different price ranges. Everything goign up right now in downtown is in the high 300s and up. The Jacksonville market cannot sustanive or fill so many high priced condos. Investors need to make the downtown a place to be and be seen before you will get high end buyers. And building more of the same high rise luxary condos is not the answer....where are the great cafe, shops, retaurants and so forth....Give the middle class a reason to invest and the high end buyers a reason to move downtown. That is not being done.

[JUSTDAVE]

over inflated prices on land is the by product of a system that included all different kinds of government bribes Is it just a coincidence that almost every part of town is growing faster than the one government has pushed so hard? no Corporate welfare is the problem not the solution.  

[cinch2win]

Wow, the only thing Kuhn is good at doing is over promising and underdelivering. He runs his mouth so much, I think only he can stand himself. So now the real estate condo market is softening....interesting, did all those unsold condos in Miami, Orlando, and Tampa allow him to arrive at that astonishing fact? I would not trust anything coming out of his mouth. We are still waiting on a parking deck for the Landing......

Retail will come to downtown, but there does have to be residences first. Why should a business owner, restaurant owner setup shop, invest in capital, employees, overhead when there is no one down there to fill the high end gap? The model of having a great area of restaurants is dispelled by the fact that most along Adams are only open from 8-5 M-F. The Landing only survives based on the hotels downtown and water traffic. Imagine the Landing at the Prime, it would have packed up and left town last week.

As much as I hate spending tax dollars, I think we need a large convention center. We need something as a draw to expand the hotel industry and its supporting industries. Lest we forget that every dollar that goes into a hotel comes back to the community in rents, groceries, dining, and other services. I think apartments are a great idea for the empty buildings. Anyone remember when there were apartments at 11E? The carling was supposed to be apartments as well, then the whole Kuhn-Condo-Craze started and apartment buildings all over town converted to condos. We need more apartments downtown, especially, I agree that we need more affordable housing. Not everyone wants  to live in a high rise condo and spend $500 a month in condo fees.

I think Lavilla is the key to Brooklyn. Right now there is moonscape between Riverside and Downtown. Brooklyn has plans, Lavilla has none. Fullwood is gone from Lavilla, I thought he would have planned for more, but alas, its now someone else's turn. The Convention Center expansion would be fantastic and if Jack Diamond and his band of zealots want to build on the river, fine, let them use their own money to do it. We have a convention center, we have the land around it, let's use it.

[thelakelander]

Please keep Jack Diamond's hands out of downtown.  He's one of the main reasons for the destruction of LaVilla and most of the surface parking lots and under utilized pocket parks today. :-

The convention center definately needs some help, but there's not a ton of land available for accessory development near the Prime Osborn.  Most of it has already been given away for uses that have nothing to do with improving the Prime Osborn's offerings.

If you're going to spend millions of dollars expanding the center, you might as well make sure you solve all of it's problems at one time.  That means relocation to a spot that instantly creates a compact setting of uses should be heavily considered.  Remember "connectivity" is the key.  Right now the Prime Osborn doesn't have that and it won't anytime soon, considering the land situation in that area.

Metro Jacksonville Convention Center Debate: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/433/93/

As for Kuhn's Riverwatch site, it would also be a good spot for additional entertainment oriented retail, such as a movie theater, at street level.  Plop a hotel on top of it and you really make the proposed park across the street worthwhile, with the Omin, TU Center, Landing and riverfront forming the rest of it's borders.

[mark5]

Movie Theater! Always been top of the list for downtown (in my book). That would go fantastic for that area and be very profitable for Kuhn. Spot On! You should contact him: even though it may be impossible to reach him, i think his people would go for that.

[Chris]

Guys, did anyone think that pricing was a factor in any of thses residential condos being revisited.  the one 12 condos were starting at over $400k!  That is F*ing rediculous!  We need to urbanize the city of jacksonville but not run the residents out of town and let all the snoby rich people in.  Let them stay in Ponte vedra, reduce the costs of the condos downtown and "SURPRISINGLY" they WOULD Sell!  But at the price these people want, its stupid.  I have been looking and waiting for a place downtown, but over my dead body would I pay over $400k for less than 800 SQ ft.  

Here are the pricing for the one12 condos... no where near affordable unless you can live in a box oh say the size of 400 sq ft!!!  NO FREAKING WAY!!!!!

INTRODUCTORY PRICING
(FLOORS 4-17)

UNIT A   $170,000-$236,000   573 sq ft   Studio      ADAMS
UNIT B   $325,000-$430,000   1168 sq ft   2bd/2ba   BAY
UNIT C   $250,000-$305,000   788 sq ft   1bd/1ba   CLAY
UNIT D   $172,000-$242,000   581 sq ft   Studio      DUVAL
UNIT E   $280,000-$380,000   866 sq ft   1bd/1ba   EAST
UNIT F    $217,000-$270,000   661 sq ft   1bd/1ba   FORSYTH
UNIT G   $550,000-$650,000   1687 sq ft   2bd/2ba   GRAND

PENTHOUSES (FLOOR 18)

UNIT H   $240,000      546 sq ft   Studio      HOGAN
UNIT I   $375,000      827 sq ft   1bd/1ba   IONIA
UNIT J   $199,000      419 sq ft   Studio      JULIA
UNIT K   $390,000      844 sq ft   1bd/2ba/den   KINGSTON
UNIT L   $770,000      1557 sq ft   2bd/2ba/den   LAURA
UNIT M   $950,000      2143 sq ft   3bd/2ba   MONROE

Lets gets an affordable downtown, one that we can all live and work and play in.  Screw the wealthy and the stupid investors.  let the F*** middle class actually afford a home downtown!!!  and yes, we deserver better than the stupid City Place condos, those are crap!

and if you havent noticed, half the San Marco is up for rent all over the place.  People arent buying to live downtown, they are only buying to make a quick profit and then flee..  again, screw them!  >:(