Stimulus leftovers could jump-start 9B construction

[thelakelander]

Federal stimulus money first earmarked for other work could pay to start construction of the long-planned Florida 9B highway in southern Jacksonville, a state spokesman said Thursday.

“We’re focusing on projects that move the most people, and 9B is high on that list,” said Dick Kane, a Department of Transportation spokesman.

The first work would apparently involve some of the route between Florida 9A and U.S. 1 near Bayard, although the parameters of any project aren’t clear.

A project list the state developed last December to weigh possible stimulus work considered two 9B projects. One running north of U.S. 1 was projected at that time to involve about $105 million in design-build contracts and total costs topping $125 million. A smaller project, referred to as the 9B stub, was projected to involve more than $30 million in design-build work and about $38 million in total costs.

full article: http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-09-17/story/stimulus_leftovers_could_jump_start_9b_construction

[Lunican]

Will it be profitable?

[JaxByDefault]

^Agreed. If we're supposed to hold public transit to that standard, why not roads?

Other than potential tax basis increase from development (which rail also brings), how will 9b pay to maintain itself? Will we see a profitable return on investment or will it be a multi-million dollar boondogle (with the added bonus of more car-based sprawl)?

I would hope there would be better -- let alone more sustainable uses -- for leftover stimulus money than 9b.

[reednavy]

The only positive I even see is a new interchange near Racetrack Road for Julington Creek. That'll help relieve traffic from Old St Aug. Road and especially from San Jose Blvd.

The biggest negative, it'll ruin the Bayard area.

[Jason]

I've stated my opinion on this one too many times.

All I can say now is "whoopie!" 

[CS Foltz]

I see potential for developers to have at it.............gee  that's enough land to put many many subdivisions into place..........but where is the rail? I just see more asphalt and concrete and developers salivating!

[tufsu1]

sure there's plenty of land....but the area north of I-95 won't really open up because there's no access to it from the road.

[CS Foltz]

tufsu1..........if you have a main artery traveling though, it is only a question of time before developers start something the taxpayers will have to finish! I made a trip toward Palatka down 206 off of 95 and that stretch which only 6 years ago was pretty empty and it's already starting to build up! It is only a question of time and I still have to ask............where is the rail at?? We have to have more than just asphalt/concrete to travel on then we do now, so why ain't it happening?

[tufsu1]

Good question Stephen...why is it so hard to understand?

There is a big difference between a road (like a collector or arterial) that provides access to adjacent parcels and an expressway which does not.....the only development generated by construction of a expressway is off roads that "interchange" with the expressway....in the case of SR 9B, that would only be US 1 (which of course already has development potential/pressure without 9B).

Now clearly the 9B extension and the associated CR 2209 extension could lead to more development in St. Johns County, but the first leg of the road will not.

All that notwithstanding, I am not a big fan of SR 9B....but it has to do with the excessive/unnecessary cost, not the potential for new suburban development.

[CS Foltz]

tufsu1 ...........I agree with "excessive and unnecessary cost" aspect. But looking ahead at a ten year time line, it would be an invite for developers to get involved simply because right now land is cheap and an open spot such as that is an invite that most large developers would not pass up on. I also agree that the interchanges would be the first spots to get enhanced and that will lead to even more development. I would mention the Merrill Road area as an example. Ten years ago that was a two lane highway, 9A had not been installed and what was there then? Not a lot at all, but look at it now! Southside connector was a minor road, two lane and what is there now? Strip Malls out the wazoo, Condos going up on both sides, Apartments and the like and its is increasing...........nice that we are gaining a tax base but at what cost?

[mtraininjax]

All I have to say is DOWN WITH MANDARIN and SOUTHSIDE. Destroy it all with concrete, stop lights and Mickey Dees!

[Ocklawaha]

9B is not a bad highway project at all. Oh My God, did Ock say that? YEP! Anyone who drives I-95 south of downtown, can look around and see container trucks speeding south on the super slab. They already shuffle around downtown from Blount Island, and Talleyrand Terminals. When the new terminal is built out, it will be fully automated, able to handle more containers, more diversity, and quicker load or turn around times then any other terminal in the country. We are talking about a MILLION more 18 wheelers of which a good 30-50% are headed south. Don't worry about it now, just wait until 5:15 at I-95 and JTB, or Southside, or I-295. This will be the nearest thing to gridlock this city has seen since pulling up the streetcars in 1936. 9-B is a short JAXPORT reliever. A simple east side bypass, that will shoot south to tap 95 and US1 miles below the current choke points.

I could see a need for it as far as SR210, I can also see the need for a better river crossing at the Shand's Bridge. As for the rest of the planned fantasy belt, I could see a traffic reliever running from I-10 so SR21 Blanding Bl, down in Middleburg, but that's about it for now.

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

I'm a guessing your referring to "Old Middleburg Road" Ock? Either way a great idea for any concrete/asphalt company but hell on wheels for the people who already live there. If the stupid Dames Point Facility had rail to begin with rather than after the fact........would make a world of difference today and tomorrow!

[thelakelander]

9B and the Outer Beltway are two different projects.  Are you guys aware of their price tags?

SR 9B (I-95 to SR 9A) - $164 million for 4.7 miles

SR 9B (I-95 to Racetrack Road) - $12 million for 0.7 miles

First Coast Outer Beltway (I-95 to US 17) - $1.8 billion for 13.2 miles

First Coast Outer Beltway (US 17 to Blanding) - N/A for 17.3 miles

First Coast Outer Beltway (Blanding to I-10) - N/A for 15.4 miles

I don't see either of these streets as really being relievers for traffic on I-95, I-295, I-10 or port traffic.  I see them opening up fresh virgin soil for future development.  Even 9B can do this around US 1, with the simple extension of service roads paralleling the highway to provide visual exposure to the undeveloped land it will cut through.  Imo, there are other options for dealing with future anticipated traffic that are worth exploring and more affordable.  This isn't the 1970s and 1980s, so additional highway expansion projects don't have to be your final answer.

[CS Foltz]

lake you will get no argument from me there! Cost is ridiculous on a per mile basis and yes I think there are better ways to do the same thing! As I stated before..........both a 9A and 9B extension will just open the area up for developers.........plain and simple! Our tax dollars hard at work getting ready to make money for developers! Now if a developer wanted to foot the bill for the extensions that would be something else but I don't see that happening............I mean that would throw the bottom line out the window so to speak!