'Rail Renaissance' to Be Slow Process

[JeffreyS]

tufsu1 I would like your opinion on the "just" of the thread.  The 8 billion will be spent on passenger rail improvements and the Buck Rogers crew will be left out hat in hand.

[CS Foltz]

Not looking at rail from a hub and spoke point of view tufsu1! I am looking at the existing trackage in place right now!! Based on that without adding anything there is possibilities........Jacksonville does have adequate trackage both in and out, west north and south. Orlando does not have near the same nor is it positioned correctly other than feeding Mouseville! A Light Rail System there will just effect that part of the world and what about the rest of Florida? I don't wish to concrete over any more swamp or water shed area's I want to make use of what we have today. When it proves its worth then worry about expanding but have an expansion plan in mind to start with, options to select from. I just don't want to shotgun approach when a scalpel will do the job!

[Ocklawaha]

Note the several gaps in the system, Bartow-W. Lake Wales, Auburndale-Wildwood, Wildwood-Tavares, Brooksville-Dunnellon.


Here we can see a bit more of the State HSR planning, I-75 is our most congested corridor, yet the gods of Tallahassee have written off OCALA, LEESBURG and GAINESVILLE. This came on the heels of Ocala investing millions to turn it's old railroad depot into a "Transportation Center."

So why should Orlando be the "hub" versus just a station along the line? The problem today is that if you want to go from Jacksonville to Miami you have to go through Orlando and Tampa and it takes 12 hours.

If you run the railroad like an airline hub and spoke system I don't think you are going to like the results.

Hub and Spokes, died with Eastern Airlines. It wasn't working for air, as Southwest, Piedmont and a host of others have proved. It will work even less for rail in Florida. Who would want to travel from Gainesville or Ocala, to Orlando, then change for a train to Jacksonville? Daytona, Orlando, Cocoa?
Ft. Myers, Orlando, Miami? That's just nuts.

Just to get out of Orlando, the rail line will have to follow the Tradeport-Taft-OUC area lines to the South, East and Southeast. To the North, it's Jacksonville or bust. Northwest they DID have a line from Orlando-Tavares-Leesburg-Wildwood and hence north on the CSX "S" line to Jacksonville. But the Wildwood-Tavares segment is gone. Ditto with a line that once ran through Rollins College out to Oviedo, GONE. So not only will high speed hub and spokes not work, it would cost BILLIONS just to reopen or rebuild long abandoned trackage.

This is not to say Orlando, Tampa and Miami would have less train service then Jacksonville. The triangle is already in place and in mainline condition. Orlando-Auburndale-Tampa, Orlando-Auburndale-Winter Haven-West Palm-Miami, Tampa-Bartow-West Lake Wales-West Palm-Miami
These would be routes of using the SFT operations concept. (*SFT Short-Fast-Trains). Meanwhile about 5 out of every 10 running on the Orlando-Tampa segment would be long distance trains from NYC and JAX.. Another 5 trains running from NYC-JAX-Ocala-Tampa, and still another 5 running from NYC-JAX-Daytona-Miami. This doesn't even consider the New Orleans - Jax route, or 5 optional routes which could add service to St. Louis, Memphis, Birmingham, Chicago, Nashville, Cincinnati, Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Charlotte, or Norfolk. It also does not consider Sarasota/Venice, or Ft. Myers/Naples, Gainesville/Starke-JAX.

If FDOT gets away with the HSR scam, they will fracture the strong support Amtrak has in the Orlando market. Division of a strong passenger base between LRT, HSR and AMTRAK doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense, when the concept should be SERVING FLORIDA HUMANS - NOT MICE!

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Well said Ock and I agree! Mouseville niche does not easily get hooked into the rest of the trackage available and as I have posted "If Mouseville wants a rail system, let them build it"! Orlando/St Pete would be a stand alone system and really hard to connect to much of anything! Jacksonville still makes a better choice for a start up system based on trackage already in place!

[Seraphs]

Seems like a no brain-er to me, Jax all the way.