Streetcars Return to Savannah

[stjr]

When I lived there, all I did way walk, to class, to work, to entertainment, but the city is set up pedestrians.  The squares are so inviting that I think most people in downtown Savannak would prefer to walk than take a trolley.  I know I would.

Another reason why the $ky-high-way won't work.  It's less accessible than trolleys or street cars so this goes double for it.

[Ocklawaha]

A 1923, "W Class" Sydney, Australia, Tram, operating the way God intended.

When I lived there, all I did way walk, to class, to work, to entertainment, but the city is set up pedestrians.  The squares are so inviting that I think most people in downtown Savannak would prefer to walk than take a trolley.  I know I would.

I'd take that bet, that Savannah, blows away the ridership figures (if any) for any transit that has operated on that street. Though most local railroad and streetcar fans may go up for a ride, unless they are regulars in Savannah, they won't be back. Fan's from distant parts of the country will drive right by... They WILL get the local traffic, and the numbskull leaders of Jacksonville, to take a look see and come away full of "me too goose bumps."

Why am I negative?

ONE HUGE, MASSIVE, GRAVE ERROR...

It's NOT electric, though it is a historic car from Australia, it becomes the bastard child of the streetcar operations around the country. They have missed a target of up to a half million visitors a year by NOT stringing wire. A benefit missed, electric has a much lower O&M cost. To a dedicated streetcar fanatic, this would be like catering a Jewish family center, with BBQ pork spare ribs.

People will ride it for the novelty, but few in the know, will ride it for the history. What is Savannah if not historic?


OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Savannah is a very walkable city, as its 24 squares make it accessible. If Jax had something like that, tourism would shoot up.

Want to put the house on it? 

We had everything Savannah had and more and we found a way to take it out.  Hopefully, sites like this will lead to a change.

[sheclown]

we never had pralines, warm and melting...

[Ocklawaha]

Savannah is a very walkable city, as its 24 squares make it accessible. If Jax had something like that, tourism would shoot up.

Want to put the house on it? 

We had everything Savannah had and more and we found a way to take it out.  Hopefully, sites like this will lead to a change.

Yep, those missing parks in Fairfield (stadium district) were just this side of stunning.
"Were," being the key word here...

As for the Savannah already had a track to use argument, which is bound to come up, so DID we.
The gates between the Maxwell House buildings, had a track that curved into the shipyards, and ran along the curb of Bay Street all the way to Talleyrand/Comodore Point. Right by the stadium, and Metropolitan Park. We tore it out. "Modern City... You'll understand..."

OCKLAWAHA

[WeeklyJoe]

It's NOT electric, though it is a historic car from Australia, it becomes the bastard child of the streetcar operations around the country. They have missed a target of up to a half million visitors a year by NOT stringing wire. A benefit missed, electric has a much lower O&M cost. To a dedicated streetcar fanatic, this would be like catering a Jewish family center, with BBQ pork spare ribs.

Ock, why downgrade Savannah for not putting in electric when it doesn't seem practical there, and isn't used much outside the NEC? Just getting a trolley moving for the public, period, should gain praise from you. How does cantenary along River Street gain up to a half million visitors a year?

[CS Foltz]

Ock I have to agree with WeeklyJoe! Electric has potential but would ruin the flavor of Savannaha....biodesiel/electric might be a better fit with no wires ruining the view! Maybe electric from solar panels on top of cars? Either way there are alternatives for the power end .....at least they have one!

[Lunican]

Electric really is the way they are supposed to be run. A bio diesel trolley is kind of a bizarre thing. It's called a trolley because of the electric pickup that rolls along the wire.

As for "ruining" the view; the catenary is just a single wire.

Check out the "ruined" view in San Francisco.







It is still nice that Savannah did something though.

[Ocklawaha]

Exactly Lunican, It's almost a religion to most of the rabid rail fans to travel about the country, and some, even the globe, to collect rides and photos, of historic cars, doing what historic cars do. Certainly Savannah is ahead of us, my critique is simply without the "history" of the car's operating components, to a aficionado's, it's like a chain saw motor on a vintage Harley Davidson... Kind of makes you sick.

Even worse, the electric is cheaper to maintain and operate, and the overhead system so simple, that 100's of museums around the world have put it up with volunteers!

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Gentlemen............I agree that "electric is simpler and easy to operate" get no argument from me there! But Savannah had tracks in place already and Jacksonville removed all of theirs. At least Savannah had something in place to start with and we don't!! What ever power source they are using not with standing........they gottem and we don't! I also noticed that no one picked up on the solar source where no wires would be needed! No one has even mentioned hydraulic power which could be self contained once charged.......stops recharge system! There was an article in one of my Car and Drivers about UPS converting some city vehicles for a full fledged real life test...........as soon as I find it will post for your perusal!

[CS Foltz]

Car & Driver, Feb 09.........Page 26 or You can go to same publication.com at their web site and go into the archieves to see the article...........has interesting applications which I think could be used for light rail/trolley systems.

[CS Foltz]

That would be www.car&driver.com go to the website then the archives link! Hydraulics is an interesting concept that could have implications for masstransit. Small electric generators to drive the accumulators and there you go a self contained system with few operating parts and each car is independent! Not historically correct but a system that has possibility's!

[buckethead]

Perhaps my lack of knowledge of mass transit is precisely what makes my input valuable. I have no opinion other than "neato".

The Skyway is in fact, neato. I like it. Except that I rarely (with a huge amount of emphasis on "rarely") use it.

I have no real idea what it would cost to expand it, or a trolly system, but a trolley (equally neato, in a different way) would seem like an exponentially cheaper system.

ROW+Rail+Wire+service facility=Trolley system. The savings would be in infrastructure. The effectiveness and convenience would appear much greater in my laymans view. Having the ability to stop basically anywhere along a route for one example. Stepping off the trolley and onto the sidewalk, perhaps at your exact destination is another example.

We have the Skyway. Tough decisions would need to be made to implement a trolley system as those dollars spent would not go towards the Skyway.

Since we do have the skyway, we should honor it. We should expand the system to the point of USABILITY. That, I leave to the more savvy to determine. Branching outward with a trolley system from those points would be IMO, the most effective means of implementing urban mass transit.

Getting the masses downtown to use the system requires urban renewal. We had a very quaint, if not delapidated set of buildings there, and a few still exist. Some of the best examples remain.

The burbers must come in for the whole system to work. Someone will need to drop some dollars into a venture that will attract those suburbanites (me) into the city's core.

I, as well as my fellow suburbanites, do not enjoy being barraged by bums or the insane when we visit Jax. I am not a hateful person and I do try to love all people. The fact remains that feeling safe as well as not feeling molested is important to building a vibrant downtown. Without people, trolleys are useless.

[CS Foltz]

Buckethead......I agree! But if you will notice, system has to be inplace first for "burber's" to take advantage of the system! Kinda like horse before the cart! Jacksonville has neither horses or carts............in fact that thought did cross my mind......horse drawn people carrying conveyances! Its green and nonpolluting except for horse flatulence!