There Are Amtrak Haters Out There

[Lunican]

I believe Mica is against Amtrak long distance trains, which I disagree with. I don't know if he was ever given the opportunity to vote on the issue, but I believe he was quoted several times saying the he was in favor of abolishing Amtrak except for certain corridors.

You can probably search newspaper archives to dig up more quotes from him.

[thelakelander]

Amtrak already has their money.  An Amtrak corridor service is not going to come down to a Mica vote.  That's FDOT agreeing to partner with them and local officials pushing for steps that benefit Jax.  So I'd be more inclined to see about Mica's history when it comes to commuter rail.

[thelakelander]

What type of rail are we talking about?  It feels like this thread is all over the place when it comes to actual modes of rail and their funding sources.

[thelakelander]

Also, lets try and pin point Mica's problem with Amtrak.  Is it rail in general or the way it has been run? 

[Ocklawaha]

As I know him, I'd say off the top, he's FOR COMMUTER RAIL, he is completely sold on the Northeast Corridor's "success," but thinks Amtrak has screwed it up. On long distance rail, having bought into the "Corridor Good - Long Distance Bad" argument, he is generally anti Amtrak. The exception to this rule is I believe he does think the corridor will be extended to Florida, and thus supports "Florida deals" when they come up. If I had to bet the farm on his vote for a new train from Dallas to Denver, I'd go ahead and start packing.

COMMUTER RAIL 100%
CORRIDOR RAIL 100%
AMTRAK FLORIDA 50%
AMTRAK NATIONAL 10%

OCKLAWAHA

[FayeforCure]

Also, lets try and pin point Mica's problem with Amtrak.  Is it rail in general or the way it has been run? 

Mica's two decade old problem with Amtrak boils down to the same reason Ock says this:

..." Government run excellence? The Post Office vs Federal Express? Even the highly praised VA medical system is one of the most frustrating functions of government. Something better in the case of Amtrak, would be incentive funds for railroad companies, or outside contractors to take over Amtrak, on a region by region basis.

Where Ock is completely misinformed. The conservative Rand corp says this about the VA:

A study done by RAND Corporation, found that VA outpaces private health care systems in delivering care to patients. Among its findings, RAND found that VA patients were more likely to receive recommended health services than those in a national sample of patients using a private provider. It also concluded that VA patients received consistently better care across the board, including screening, diagnosis, treatment, and follow-up.

Additionally, an article in Washington Monthly titled "The Best Care Anywhere" explained at length how, in just 10 years, VA hospitals went from less than excellent care to the pinnacle of quality health care. Fostering the change is the focus on new technology to reduce medical errors.

The REAL key is adequate funding for government services. You can't make the VA or Amtrak for that matter anorexic and expect it to provide a great service!!

http://veterans.senate.gov/press-releases.cfm?action=release.display&release_id=32a8ff36-f663-4dba-bd00-df40ec4a9fba

Let's see what Zukowski says about Amtrak. Zukowski has been the editor or senior editor of half a dozen magazines and newsletters, and is the author of "Why America Needs Amtrak." An expert in the automotive and passenger rail fields, Zukowski has been quoted in the Washington Post, the National Post of Canada, Fresno magazine and The New York Times TimesSelect online edition; has been a guest on WPFW-Pacifica Radio and interviewed on CBS News radio; and has appeared on major cable networks.

Amtrak's Problem Solved
Amtrak now has the two most powerful lobbyists in Washington on its side: the newly-inaugurated president and vice president of the United States.

When I began this blog four years, to counter the Bush Administration's attempts to dismember the national passenger railroad, I started with the premise that "Amtrak has a communications problem." I pointed out that "there is no strong national voice speaking in support of Amtrak." Only a few small, underfunded rail enthusiast organizations and the stepchild attention of environmental groups carried the flag for passenger trains -- constituencies easily ignored by most conservative Republicans.

In Washington, legislation is written by lobbyists, and as a government-owned corporation, Amtrak had no access to K Street firms. Now, the sitting president and vice president not only chose to ride into town on an Amtrak train, but they both referred to Amtrak in their acceptance speeches at the Democratic convention. Pennsylvania Avenue is a better address than K Street.

Now, let's see if they walk the talk. The first sign is not encouraging: transportation as a whole is only mentioned in a single paragraph under "Additional Issues" on the new White House Web site.

Amtrak has never had any more than lukewarm support from the White House.
Nixon agreed to create the National Railroad Passenger Corporation in order to placate the freight railroads, and it wasn't expected to survive more than a couple of years.
President Carter tried to severely curtail long distance service,
Reagan tried to kill Amtrak altogether, and
Clinton merely left the life support machine plugged in.

President Obama and Amtrak Joe both support the national passenger railroad, and see it as part of the solution to energy efficiency and congestion mitigation. But there will be strong competition for federal dollars, even in an era when the printing press is running 24/7.

The previous administration's attack on Amtrak seemed particularly short-sighted to me at a time of rising oil prices and global warming. Moreover, it would have been an egregious waste of a national asset. We're talking dollars here, folks.

Amtrak is a unique and undervalued asset. By law, it is the only passenger railroad which has statutory authority to operate over the nation's network of freight railroads. It owns locomotives, cars, stations and shops which have a monetary value so long as there is a railroad to run. To have simply shut it down would have been to tear up taxpayer dollars.

With two big supporters in the White House, Amtrak now has an opportunity to prove itself. It needs funds to overhaul and upgrade equipment and service, but in a market economy, it can only be of value if it provides convenient, reliable, safe transportation at a competitive price.



Posted by Daniel Zukowski on January 21, 2009 at 09:05 AM in Amtrak | Permalink

Sorry, lakelander, but the credibility of Republicans who've actively worked to kill Amtrak is irredeemable.

[thelakelander]

Faye, no need to apologize, I'm not arguing for anyone's credibility regarding Amtrak.  However, I would be interested to see plans for a privately ran system mentioned by Ock above.  Intercity rail was private at one point.  Is there anything that could be done to make private investment in passenger rail systems more feasible?

Also, you seem to know Mica well.  What's his past history on commuter rail?

[FayeforCure]

Well we pinpointed our plan based on Amtrak, so his opinion on that is what matters.

Larry Hannan has been writing in the TU about the rail need of Amtrak's Jax Miami line in NE Florida since Nov 2008, and Mica has not found it necessary to be a major driver in the effort.

Mere, and tepid lipservice isn't going to be enough, and being that he has been such a foe of Amtrak I highly doubt that he'd exhibit the same kind of dedication to Amtrak Jax-Miami as the CSX Central Florida Commuter rail that would run through his backyard.

If staying silent about it is ok with thelakelander, what the heck do we have representatives for in Washington DC?!?!?

[thelakelander]

Well we pinpointed our plan based on Amtrak, so his opinion on that is what matters.

Our plan is not pinpointed on Amtrak.  The local BJP money that may or may not exist, is the potential source for fixed rail connecting our urban core neighboroods.  That's the central piece of our MJ discussions.

Amtrak comes into play as a way to reduce the long term capital costs of commuter rail on corridors shared by Amtrak.  The Amtrak/FEC project is beyond a yea or nay vote by Mica or Brown.  The mjaor players at this point are FDOT and Amtrak.  Our local fight on this end is to get some Jax related rail improvments included in the rollout of the system if the State, Amtrak and FEC can agree to terms.

[FayeforCure]

Also, you seem to know Mica well.  What's his past history on commuter rail?

In Orlando, Mica ditched the light-rail plan that had gotten renewed support in 2000, in favor of the CSX commuter rail line, which ridership has been questionable. He never misses an opportunity to advocate for the CSX commuter rail line through his back yard. He's kind of like a one trick pony on rail. His only other interest is to replace Amtrak's successful Acela.

[thelakelander]

Also Faye, how would you handle the Sunrail issue?  Its pretty critical for Jax's commuter rail plans, to have a major portion of freight traffic shifted from the A line ("Mica's backyard).  For the commuter rail line between DT and Clay County, this is more important than Amtrak.

[FayeforCure]

Faye, fyi, Ock also worked at the Post Office and is a disabled veteran.

We all complain about everything.  Even the isrealites complained about Manna in the middle of the desert.

Its a species of hairless chimps who spend their time kvetching.  Welcome to the human condition.

But hes not misinformed about the shortcomings of the systems. 

He's misinformed about the VA.

BTW the DAV ( Disabled American Veterans of America) gave Mica a score of 5% out of 100%.

Amazing how those who've benefited the most from government are those who are the government's harshest critics.

What has always irked me is that people who do not believe in government get elected to government office!!!

[thelakelander]

Our plan most certainly does rely on Amtrak to provide the corridor improvements to piggy back off of.

In fact, we helped author the resolution asking the JTA Board to support this initiative.

You are just digging your heels in, and its a little amusing.

Did you just read what I stated?   The piggying backing part is the Amtrak/FEC project.  That application has already been submitted and the money needed to fund it (and other HSR/intercity projects) has already been set aside.  This issue of what we've discussed (regarding Amtrak) has passed the point of Mica or Brown voting against it.

The two other elements still in play are the Sunrail issue (CSX A line capacity situation, CSX Springfield Bypass funding, etc.) and the BJP $100 million (Streetcar starter).  Don't believe me?  Go back and check the last couple of years of articles I've written on this subject.

Without Amtrak, under our current proposition, there is no city wide transit.  Just a downtown system that may or may not connect to one of the suburbs.

Not entirely true.  Amtrak's FEC project just makes it easier for the SE commuter rail corridor and getting Amtrak back downtown.  We also need the CSX/Sunrail deal to go through for the North and Southwest commuter rail corridors.  Urban core wise, its streetcar/skyway or bust.

You know that as well as I do.  You and ock are defending a politician on his position which you may or may not be correct about.

I am correct in stating he's not a fan of Amtrak but an advocate of commuter rail.  I am also correct in stating that Mica is the least of our problems.  That's my position in this debate.  

[FayeforCure]

lol. Ive always found that odd.  But who is better qualified to complain or criticize.

But Ock's feelings about the VA aside, what would you do?

I already expressed my two points of interest locally:

1.  (light) rail between DT Jax and Orange Park.  Local Jax/Clay County residents commuting parallel to that corridor have to put up with the longest commutes in the state via Blanding and Roosevelt Blvds.

2. Jax-Miami Amtrak commuter service, which is/was easy to accomplish. ( far easier than the complicated Central Florida commuter rail project which replaced another excellent light rail plan in Orlando.)

Statewide I'm into grabbing some of the federal HSR dollars for Orlando Tampa HSR, sim ply because the dollars are there for this visionary project, and God knows we need the jobs.

[thelakelander]

1. Light rail between DT and Orange Park is not feasible or the smartest thing to do.  Commuter rail is the most cost efficient solution for this corridor because the rail is already in place.  However, this line really needs the Sunrail deal to go through to make it a reality sooner rather than later.

2. You mean intercity rail service provided by Amtrak instead of commuter rail.  As Ock stated, they are completely too different modes of rail service. Luckily, the HSR fund application for this project has been submitted.

Also, Sunrail did not replace Orlando's LRT plan.  They have been designed to complement one another.  I'll see if I can find a map showing both together.