Jacksonville City Council panel cuts police budget

[Cliffs_Daughter]

Deuce, I gotta agree with you - my homeowners taxes would only go up a tiny bit - something like $44 after adjustments and all.  I'd much rather pay that than other means of action.

And having several people in positions that make 4x what I do in much the same capacity of work makes no sense to me, considering a lot of us would be willing and VERY able to do their job for less.
Heck, in this economy, a lot of people in general would be willing. Why reward them just for the privilege of working in the Mayor's Office?

[chipwich]

I never understood what the community service officers did anyway. 
They look like "rent-a-cops"

I do not feel bad for these cuts one bit.

I see way too many police bundled up on the side of the road creating speed traps around town.  Let's fire them and those who order them to create such a nuisance around town. Why would we want to rasie our taxes to pay for people to stand on the side of the road and ticket us?

I am not bashing our police force as I think they overall do a fine and heoric job of trying to protect our city, but I see too much obvious miss allocation of resources and think that some cuts are perhaps not so bad in the face of our current economic situation.

[gmpalmer]

"This WILL cause crimes such as murder and robbery to rise."

No, criminals will cause crimes to rise. 

[NotNow]

Funny how the issue changes when its your own family and ass on the line isn't it?

You do not believe that tax monies should be used in this manner.   You don't even believe in Social Security, and have called it a Ponzi Scheme.    Now that the administration of your own retirement plan has proven unsatisfactory, you want the tax payers to help you out.

Well Notnow.   I hope we do.   Because that is what good government does.

I know that you hope we don't, but I hope that you still take the money.

I'll repeat myself again since you keep repeating false information.  The Federal Social Security system and the Jacksonville Police & Fire Retirement Fund are completely different devices designed for completely different purposes.  I am not quite sure what "you don't believe in Social Security" means.  I stated that the U. S. Constitution does not authorize the federal government to create and administer a forced retirement plan.  I stated that the SCOTUS says that they can, so the issue is settled.  I stated that the Police & Fire Pension is a private plan between an employer and it's employees.  I stated that the City of Jacksonville withheld payment to the Police & Fire Pension Fund in several years and that is a large part of the reason for the current level of unfunded liability.  Once again, I'll say it slowly, the City should make up for the money withheld to the Pension.  This is not "charity" or "stimulus" or "welfare".  This is what is owed employees.  The management of the Police & Fire Pension has performed well above market averages for the duration of my career, and is quite satisfactory.  We helped the City out, and now they want to not live up to their agreements. 

Recheck those websites for some new spin.

[CrysG]

Steven,

I think what's he's saying and either your not getting or not wanting to admit you get is, they need the tax dollars to REPAY the loans the city took out against The Police & Fire Pension. I'm not sure how someone as clever can't understand that. 

If You had a pension that your employer took money out of to finance requests for the city I think you'd want that money back too.

[heights unknown]

"This WILL cause crimes such as murder and robbery to rise."

No, criminals will cause crimes to rise. 

Yeah but without the added manpower to help put the deterrence factor in there, this will cause people to commit more crimes if there is a reduction in law enforcement manpower.

Heights Unknown

[gmpalmer]

a reduction in law enforcement manpower does not "cause people to commit more crimes."

Making bad decisions without regard to the future or their fellow man "causes" people to commit crimes.

[tufsu1]

semantics...the fact is that those who may be thinking about committing a crime are often deterred by the presence of law enforcement.

[buckethead]

I like being helpful so here goes.

Crime and criminals cause a greater need for police presence. Lack of police support does not cause rises in crime. Criminals will likely perpetrate more crime if they think there is little likelyhood of prosecution.

Semantics yes, but important.

[mtraininjax]

Mounted units have a huge advantage in large crowd conditions

Jax Jazz Festival, and FL/GA are they worth keeping the mounted units? 2, maybe 3 days a year? The City built new facilities when Monroe was rebuilt off I-95, why do we have a horse barn in downtown Jax? Why did we not move the horses to the equestrian facility? We only really need them twice a year, so why again do we have such waste? Perhaps because the horsies are pretty for the kids to look at, and without them, some would not know what a horse is, living in our metropolis of concrete and steel. Gimme a break!

If you purchased your house/dwelling, in the last few years, you have been screwed by the prop taxes and seen the value fall through the floor. I purchased mine in 1999, so I saw a small increase, but saw a decrease in all others due to Jim Overton realizing that values are falling. I have no problem with 12% increase. However, the mayor is an idiot who cannot just come out and tell us he needs 12%. Overton should send out the proposed taxes BEFORE the idiot mayor has a chance to open his mouth. Here I was worrying for months over my taxes, when 9 of 11 properties went down significantly.

[NotNow]

ALL of the COJ's money is taxpayer money.  ALL of every government's money is taxpayer money.  So every contribution that the City makes to the Police & Fire Pension is taxpayer money.  The City did not make their obligated contributions in certain recent years.  Those contributions, had they been made, would have greatly reduced the unfunded liability percentage that the COJ is currently required to reduce.  Therefore, the City is largely responsible for the money currently OWED (not charity, and not requiring any "humanitarianism") by the City. 

EVERY public pension invests in the stock market.  Again, the Police & Fire Pension performed well above the average during the last 18 months.  The pension did lose money, but so did every other retirement fund that I know of including my own Roth IRA.  The transfer of real property was negotiated between the City and the Pension in lieu of cash.  The City had been trying to sell the property unsuccessfully and the Pension accepted the property and all of the obligations (read risks) that come along with it.  The Pension was able to sell the property at a profit (good) and the City unloaded property it was trying to sell (good) and conserved their cash for other uses (good).

I do not agree with the bailout of car companies.  To compare the obligation of the City to it's employee pension funds with the Federal give away bailouts of large banks and automobile manufacturers is obviously disingenuous.  It is not remotely the same thing.  The same kind of dishonesty allows one to declare himself "humanitarian" when one has no personal sacrifice or obligation. 

[NotNow]

Continuing to repeat false information does not make it any less false.  You are just stomping your little feet again StephenDare!. 

On the larger subject, the cut in the JSO budget is irresponsible and I believe that it could result in losing the momentum against crime that has been gained.  Also, I was not in favor of the CSO program at its inception, but the program is designed and has been successfull at developing young people into Police Officers.  To abandon these young men and women in the middle of their college semesters seems to me to be the wrong thing to do.

[NotNow]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say StephenDare!.  No one is arguing against what?

And what is with the personal attacks?  Just argue your point. 

[NotNow]

So the private Police & Fire Pension fund is a socialist entitlement to taxpayer money?  Really? 

Your apparent inability to understand the difference between the local private pension fund supported by an employer and its employees and a Federal retirement/disability/aid to families supported by a national FICA tax is the crux of our differences. (On this issue)  The authority of the Federal government is spelled out in the U.S. Constitution.  The rules and regulations of the Jacksonville Police & Fireman's Pension Fund is spelled out in Florida State Statute and Jacksonville Municipal Ordinance.  Perhaps I have not explained the differences well enough.  You can Google those two sources and read for yourself and then we won't hijack this thread with a personal argument. 

[NotNow]

You are right, you don't get it.